You think AA would do this if they believe their employees are will to strike?

[aetheling1]

Bob, you sometimes think the discussion is all about you and only about mechanics. It's pretty clear (at least to me) that eolesen was talking about flight attendants and perhaps agents and fleet. Pilots and mechanics, on the other hand, are positions where the experience benefit is a little more obvious.

It's clear to me that Bob was talking about being a career as an A&P mechanic since he went on to mention the mechanics that aren't coming back and the A&P schools that are shutting down. The discussion was indeed about A&P mechanics, so the comment seemed to be directed to Bob's choice of an "entry level" career. Yes that was an arrogant comment.

 

[eolesen]

You're damn right I'm arrogent. And I get paid what I think I'm worth, as opposed to letting someone else negotiate what they think I'm worth. It meant leaving a job that I enjoyed at AA, and leaving a state I loved living in. But I'm still able to find personal satisfaction with what I do, and enjoy where I'm working and living.

I guess it all comes down to outlook -- you can take control of your work life, or you can piss and moan about how "the man" is out to keep you down...

What's ironic is that Bob's second half of his statement backs that up -- all the guys who got furloughed (or left on their own) apparently found that it wasn't quite so bad to change employers, careers, whatever. If they were so unhappy with where they landed, they'd be coming back when recalled in droves.

Here's Bob's exact words:

Is there anyone on these boards thats under 30? Anyone under 40? Most of us have been in this industry a long time, would any of you recommend this job to your kids? This isnt the job it used to be, in high cost areas the pay is substandard and the personal and social demands of the job are extreme, weekends, nights, Holidays, what makes you think that the Airlines could recruit people who would pas s the backround checks, the drug tests and have the required skills.

Most of the mecha nics who were laid off after 9-11 left the industry permanentl y, they have no intentions on coming back and most of the schools that supply A&P mechanics have shut down. My guess is that the number of people aquiring the skills they would need to get in the door in other classifications is down as well. Nearly everyone I know who left this industry has done better than they would had they stayed.

Sorry I missed the word mechanic above, now clearly highlighted to make the intent of his question/statement/sermon.

There's a ceiling for every job set by supply and demand. It doesn't matter if you're a fry cook at McDonalds, a pilot, or a Nobel Laureate in Physics.

 

[chris perry]

You're damn right I'm arrogent. And I get paid what I think I'm worth, as opposed to letting someone else negotiate what they think I'm worth. It meant leaving a job that I enjoyed at AA, and leaving a state I loved living in. But I'm still able to find personal satisfaction with what I do, and enjoy where I'm working and living.

I guess it all comes down to outlook -- you can take control of your work life, or you can piss and moan about how "the man" is out to keep you down...

What's ironic is that Bob's second half of his statement backs that up -- all the guys who got furloughed (or left on their own) apparently found that it wasn't quite so bad to change employers, careers, whatever. If they were so unhappy with where they landed, they'd be coming back when recalled in droves.

Here's Bob's exact words:

Sorry I missed the word mechanic above, now clearly highlighted to make the intent of his question/statement/sermon.

There's a ceiling for every job set by supply and demand. It doesn't matter if you're a fry cook at McDonalds, a pilot, or a Nobel Laureate in Physics.

Your Right about a ceiling for every job.The ceiling is around 46.00 an hour,a far cry from what AA is offering mechanics.

 

[nbmcg01]

Personally, I don't think AA cares if employees threaten to strike. At midnight of the 30 day count-down they will implement any unsettled item and that will be that. AE will probably fly the most profitable domestic routes supplemented by available mainline and they will keep the most profitable Intn' routes going. Buckle your seat belts the ride is going to get bumpy.

 

[boston]

Personally, I don't think AA cares if employees threaten to strike. At midnight of the 30 day count-down they will implement any unsettled item and that will be that. AE will probably fly the most profitable domestic routes supplemented by available mainline and they will keep the most profitable Intn' routes going. Buckle your seat belts the ride is going to get bumpy.

I don't believe AA has implemented any unsettled item in the last hr in my 21 yrs, but there is always a first, but I don't feel they will do that nor AE taking over flying. I wouldn't expext AA's first offer to be the best they can do, and history has shown that. I know we (APFA) will ask to be released if we can't come to an agreement, but so far our game plan known to all as "Choas"..a bad weather day.

Optimism

 

[Mach85ER]

I know we (APFA) will ask to be released if we can't come to an agreement, but so far our game plan known to all as "Choas"..a bad weather day.

Optimism

Good luck. They shut down the S80 flying for a week (40% flying?), and the stock price actually moved up in price a few cents.

As a non-FA, other inflight employee, I think the FA group might have a real problem going to a full strike.
Maybe up to 3000 will SCAB. Demographics today are different than 93' where a twenty-something might move home with Ma and Pa if things really got bad. Now Ma and Pa might be living with the FA who might be a single mom with two expensive teenagers along with expensive health issues.
Being a SCAB probably won't carry the stigma as last time simply from my observation over the years, there wasn't any stigma. Now and then there was someone who sat in the front of a crew bus by themselves, but
it was the rarity. Not long afterwards, it was "see everybody in the lobby bar for happy hour". To sum it up, I've seen worse treatment given to someone who said "your cat is chubby" during "picture book time" in the galley or an ice cream request from the FB.
3000 SCABS fly 130 hours a month, code share partners run wild and carry the premiums (of them this time around). 7-9 day wonders augment the SCABS, FAA minimum crews on the widebodies and AA might be able to crew many more flights.
Inflight service would suck. The problem is, we had on the best rankings back in 1993, a long FA strike would have destroyed the market share. AA might not be to worried this time if we drop from our #15 to #17 in the airline rankings.
Know thy adversary if serious about taking the fight to the highest level.

 

[boston]

Good luck. They shut down the S80 flying for a week (40% flying?), and the stock price actually moved up in price a few cents.

As a non-FA, other inflight employee, I think the FA group might have a real problem going to a full strike.
Maybe up to 3000 will SCAB. Demographics today are different than 93' where a twenty-something might move home with Ma and Pa if things really got bad. Now Ma and Pa might be living with the FA who might be a single mom with two expensive teenagers along with expensive health issues.
Being a SCAB probably won't carry the stigma as last time simply from my observation over the years, there wasn't any stigma. Now and then there was someone who sat in the front of a crew bus by themselves, but
it was the rarity. Not long afterwards, it was "see everybody in the lobby bar for happy hour". To sum it up, I've seen worse treatment given to someone who said "your cat is chubby" during "picture book time" in the galley or an ice cream request from the FB.
3000 SCABS fly 130 hours a month, code share partners run wild and carry the premiums (of them this time around). 7-9 day wonders augment the SCABS, FAA minimum crews on the widebodies and AA might be able to crew many more flights.
Inflight service would suck. The problem is, we had on the best rankings back in 1993, a long FA strike would have destroyed the market share. AA might not be to worried this time if we drop from our #15 to #17 in the airline rankings.
Know thy adversary if serious about taking the fight to the highest level.

 

[Skymess]

Good luck. They shut down the S80 flying for a week (40% flying?), and the stock price actually moved up in price a few cents.


Being a SCAB probably won't carry the stigma as last time simply from my observation over the years, there wasn't any stigma. Now and then there was someone who sat in the front of a crew bus by themselves, but
it was the rarity. Not long afterwards, it was "see everybody in the lobby bar for happy hour". To sum it up, I've seen worse treatment given to someone who said "your cat is chubby" during "picture book time" in the galley or an ice cream request from the FB. .

I'm not calling for a strike here but I think you are way off the mark. My guess is that you aren't based in Miami or New York where to be a scab still means bad news for you to this day.

 

[boston]

As a APFA member, and one who keeps up, we the APFA membership are not planning on a strike at this time around if we can't get a TA. It's publicly known that we are planning "choas" . 20-100 flights or whatever the the union deems will be a red flight at one base or hub and that's it. So you may have 100 or more at the last minute have F/A's walk away, like I said a bad weather day. Not very complicated. I'm not to worried about the above said what AA will do, way to much thinking. I'm confident APFA will do what is best for their membership.

 

[Bob Owens]

Demographics today are different than 93' where a twenty-something might move home with Ma and Pa if things really got bad. Now Ma and Pa might be living with the FA who might be a single mom with two expensive teenagers along with expensive health issues.
Being a SCAB probably won't carry the stigma as last time simply from my observation over the years, there wasn't any stigma. Now and then there was someone who sat in the front of a crew bus by themselves, but
it was the rarity. Not long afterwards, it was "see everybody in the lobby bar for happy hour". To sum it up, I've seen worse treatment given to someone who said "your cat is chubby" during "picture book time" in the galley or an ice cream request from the FB.

The economics are different as well. The Flight attendant of 1993 now earns around 40% less in 2010. Chances are many who go out will find employment that matches or surpasses what bthey earn and will the airline be able to get enough through the learning center to do the job? They couldnt in 93 when they paid 40% more, what makes ypu think they could now?

As far as the scabs they have been shunnned right up to the present, if we can spot it I cant understand why you cant.

 

[Hopeful]

You will never have a successful strike in this industry anymore. I prefer the method of staying on the job and showing the company exactly what they should expect since all they want is more more more.
Treat your people well, and performance will reflect it. Treat your people like crap, performance will be reflected as well.

Does anyone not see that this company just wants to take and not give?
From Arpey on down, laying out his "vision" and plan for the future, did you read anything where it says the employees will benefit from all the "working together" and JLT nonsense?

They want you to give 100% to make them #1, but they only want to give 0% in return.

And before anyone replies with the "Oh, they offered you guys a lump sum" offer in the latest contract proposal, keep in mind that the company wants a ZERO cost contract. For the disgraceful pittance they want to give you, I encourage you to read the entire proposal, and you will see what they want far exceeds this lump sum.

 

[Bob Owens]

You will never have a successful strike in this industry anymore. I prefer the method of staying on the job and showing the company exactly what they should expect since all they want is more more more.
Treat your people well, and performance will reflect it. Treat your people like crap, performance will be reflected as well.

Thats what the meda and all the experts said before Carey took the IBT out at UPS. Sure we should use other forms of self help first, mechanics can exert a lot of pressure while remaining on the clock but we should never rule out a strike and we should be prepared as best as we can for one. If fact prior pressure can help prepare us because it usually results in OT. Preparing to strike is the probably the best way to avoid having to strike, if the company realizes that the workforce is determined to get a fair contract they are more likely to realize that the cost of a strike is far greater than meeting the demands of the workers. Another reason to prepare for a strike is because our situation is because a strike by any other workgroup, especially the pilots or flight attendants, both of whom struck in the 90s, would have the same impact on us as would our own strike. We would be whats called conscripted strikers in a way because as long as they were out most of us would be told to stay home. Whether or not we would win the grievance remains a question because it was never challenged in 97.

 

[Hopeful]

but we should never rule out a strike and we should be prepared as best as we can for one.

[quote\]

No of course we should not rule out a strike. But knowing the government, they would most undoubetedly intervene in an AA strike.
Bush did not act on the mechanics at NWA, because NWA had more than ample time to hire replacement scabs. That was was all about breaking the union.

As for us, I believe, if given the chance to get to the 11th hour at then end of the 30 day cooling off period, Obama, would intervene and order a PEB, hence a forced settlement.
Personally I would take my chances with a PEB, because this company has no interest in settling any contract unless there are more concessions.

The last truly successful strike was at Eastern Airlines. Even the might IAM buckled and did not let the LIRR strike as well. Even though thousands of jobs lost and lived affected, it brought an end to Lorenzo.

You keep saying prepare to strike, but do you really believe the TWU will ever allow us to get to that point?

As far as the TWU is concerned, just ain't gonna happen, and we will take it in the shorts again.

 

[MCI transplant]

Thats what the meda and all the experts said before Carey took the IBT out at UPS. Sure we should use other forms of self help first, mechanics can exert a lot of pressure while remaining on the clock but we should never rule out a strike and we should be prepared as best as we can for one. If fact prior pressure can help prepare us because it usually results in OT. Preparing to strike is the probably the best way to avoid having to strike, if the company realizes that the workforce is determined to get a fair contract they are more likely to realize that the cost of a strike is far greater than meeting the demands of the workers. Another reason to prepare for a strike is because our situation is because a strike by any other workgroup, especially the pilots or flight attendants, both of whom struck in the 90s, would have the same impact on us as would our own strike. We would be whats called conscripted strikers in a way because as long as they were out most of us would be told to stay home. Whether or not we would win the grievance remains a question because it was never challenged in 97.

<_< ------ Bob, I may be a little naive on this, but wouldn't it be to all three of the Union's advantage to have an agreement, up front, that if one of the Unions goes out, they all go out!? I feel it would put just that more pressure on the Company to settle with all three! :huh:

 

[Hopeful]

<_< ------ Bob, I may be a little naive on this, but wouldn't it be to all three of the Union's advantage to have an agreement, up front, that if one of the Unions goes out, they all go out!? I feel it would put just that more pressure on the Company to settle with all three! :huh:

Excellent point! They should agree right now to let the company know they will honor one another's picket line.
But the union leadership MUST be willing to face the consequences by defying any court order that may be handed down.

Since Reagan's firing of the controllers, labor relations have been tilted in favor of the companies. And since corporate America is sooooo afraid of the roughly 12% union members in this country, they shouldnt fear a strike in the airline industry.


Now that I woke up, this would be ideal if we had a real union.