Your Upgrade Awaits

[USA320Pilot]

Your Upgrade Awaits: January 12, 2012

Click here to read the story.

 

[15CAG45BLJ]

about as interesting as this

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

about as interesting as this

So, an airline that does not serve sparkling wine - even in F/C - on domestic flights runs an article about sparking wine in its magazine.


Almost as ironic as extolling F/C upgrades on airline that has reduced premium cabins in its A330s, A320s, and A321s.

 

[Pi brat]

Wow! 61% of US (branded) flight have first class available! Who would have thunk it?! Gee thanks caped marauder! You really are important!

 

[Pi brat]

dupe

 

[PHL]

So, an airline that does not serve sparkling wine - even in F/C - on domestic flights runs an article about sparking wine in its magazine.


Almost as ironic as extolling F/C upgrades on airline that has reduced premium cabins in its A330s, A320s, and A321s.

The 330 is going from 30 to 28 (yes, I know it used to be 6F/36J). I think most people are ok with a reduction of 2 total current J seats when they are going from 6 flat + 24 recliners to 28 all suites/lie flat. 26 F seats in the A321 was too many. I support the decision to cut back to 16 because they weren't making any money on full fare F passengers filling any good percentage of those seats.

But I find the whole "we're putting F in our large RJ fleet" when it was the same jokers who reversed the former management's decision to take delivery of the then-new E170/175 fleet with F. They should be saying "we were afraid to be trailblazers by being among the first to put First class in our new E170/175's, so we changed our original order and had them make all coach just prior to delivery. Then we saw that everyone else was doing it so we knew we had no choice"

 

[Art at ISP]

I agree with PHL except the part about F on the 321's, and would expand that to include the 757. With the exception of intl configurations at US and other majors, which have lie flat seats, 26 on the 321 would be competitive with domestic configuration 757's at AA,DL,CO,UA etc. which have 24-26 F seats. While the revenue point may be justified, one could use the same logic as putting F in RJ's to justify the original F cabins using space ahead of #2 doors...8 and 16 F on a 321 or 757 is just not competitive any more.

 

[AstroLounge]

People need to Understand that EVERYTHING comes with a Cost. Nothing is FREE. The A321 having 26 F/C seats was a total waste of space and LOST Revenue. Waay too many Upgrades filled the seats and there was little to gain. A Consumer's Loyalty only goes so far before the "Should've,Could've ,Would've" meets up with the "I Want, I Need, Gotta Have Ideology". It is VERY Easy for a Consumer To Make a Wish List of WHAT they Expect but often times the same individual becomes extremely reluctant to pull the wallet out and PAY For It. Many people have Visions of Grandeur on what they Like/Prefer/Need. The pillow/blanket for purchase onboard is a PRIME EXAMPLE. Now that many airlines Charge for them...........suddenly You are Not so Cold or you really don't need that pillow afterall. I certainly miss The Good Old Days like the Majority but there comes a time when REALITY sets in. And on the Issue of Sparkling Wine/Champagne Onboard......? "Why do people feel a need for it on an Airplane when THEY would never consider ordering it in a general social setting?". I have dined at numerous NICE restarants over the years and I cannot even recall seeing a glass/bottle of 'the Bubbly" served unless it was some SPECIAL OCCASSION, and don't tell Me all those Business Travellers are Ecstatic about Going To Work. NOT! First Class in 2012 is not and will never be what it was in 1970 and EVERYONE needs to Accept that.

 

[USFlyer]

I agree the A321 F cabin was previously way too large. I think the initial hope was to use 2L to board, making the A321 operate like the B757 -- upon boarding, F to the left, Y to the right. That proved unworkable, though, due to most U.S. gateway sizes. If the 2L door had been a little more forward, it would have worked out better for both the dedicated F cabin and boarding. I'm somewhat surprised Airbus didn't realize this during design.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

No, it's not 1970. But somehow, as Art points out, the likes of AA, DL, and UA find it to their advantage to have F/C cabins the size that US once had. Is their customer base that different?

 

[USFlyer]

No, it's not 1970. But somehow, as Art points out, the likes of AA, DL, and UA find it to their advantage to have F/C cabins the size that US once had. Is their customer base that different?

Actually, yes. All three have large international networks with a lot of business class traffic, which books into first class for the domestic legs.

 

[Art at ISP]

USFlyer,

While that is part of the equation, the same could be said for US albeit with a smaller international network in CLT and PHL. The fact is that on non meal flights the cost differential between a first class seat and a coach seat is negligible...perhaps a drink or two and a bag of peanuts or chips from the snack basket. In any case, US' direction is clear, and if it works for them great. For every captive PHL or CLT business flyer, however, there are quite a few who will choose the others over US with the small F cabins being a factor. Also, there are other aircraft, albeit smaller, like UA 319's which have only 8 F seats, as to CO 737-500.

To give credit where credit is due, however, I do applaud the installation of F cabins on regional aircraft, however, they are following a trend here, not leading one. And don't count me among the "wah wah I want everything for free" group, because I am quite the opposite. I will pay for F if it makes sense, and have done so in order to avoid the gate dance for a battlefield upgrade. That said, it depends on the circumstance, but it does happen.

I am not taking the blame for low fares either. I have always said fares are too low for airlines to survive and thrive, but that is dictated by the market. I am for RATIONAL fares, which means the bottom can be raised, but the top has to be lowered. I remember a US Senior VP telling me once that if he could raise base fares $20, he could lower top end fares by $300 or more. When I challenged him to do it, he said it wasn't that easy.

Maybe it is time for re-regulation of sorts....I can't wait to see what happens now with the new disclosure rules....

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

USFlyer,

While that is part of the equation, the same could be said for US albeit with a smaller international network in CLT and PHL. The fact is that on non meal flights the cost differential between a first class seat and a coach seat is negligible...perhaps a drink or two and a bag of peanuts or chips from the snack basket. In any case, US' direction is clear, and if it works for them great. For every captive PHL or CLT business flyer, however, there are quite a few who will choose the others over US with the small F cabins being a factor. Also, there are other aircraft, albeit smaller, like UA 319's which have only 8 F seats, as to CO 737-500.

IIRC, when the F/C cabin was at 24 or 26, it was usually pretty full, at least on transcons. Sure, maybe not so much to MCO (but a nice relief valve for the inevitable oversales in coach). What strikes me is the incongruity between making F/C upgrades easier than ever under the Tempe regime while making the cabins smaller.

On a positive note, it is nice to see the F/C product being improved. Bringing back glassware was great, and the meals - while not up what they were in the late 90s - are much nicer.

 

[diamondcutter]

People need to Understand that EVERYTHING comes with a Cost. Nothing is FREE. The A321 having 26 F/C seats was a total waste of space and LOST Revenue. Waay too many Upgrades filled the seats and there was little to gain. A Consumer's Loyalty only goes so far before the "Should've,Could've ,Would've" meets up with the "I Want, I Need, Gotta Have Ideology". It is VERY Easy for a Consumer To Make a Wish List of WHAT they Expect but often times the same individual becomes extremely reluctant to pull the wallet out and PAY For It. Many people have Visions of Grandeur on what they Like/Prefer/Need. The pillow/blanket for purchase onboard is a PRIME EXAMPLE. Now that many airlines Charge for them...........suddenly You are Not so Cold or you really don't need that pillow afterall. I certainly miss The Good Old Days like the Majority but there comes a time when REALITY sets in. And on the Issue of Sparkling Wine/Champagne Onboard......? "Why do people feel a need for it on an Airplane when THEY would never consider ordering it in a general social setting?". I have dined at numerous NICE restarants over the years and I cannot even recall seeing a glass/bottle of 'the Bubbly" served unless it was some SPECIAL OCCASSION, and don't tell Me all those Business Travellers are Ecstatic about Going To Work. NOT! First Class in 2012 is not and will never be what it was in 1970 and EVERYONE needs to Accept that.

Well said

 

[USFlyer]

While that is part of the equation, the same could be said for US albeit with a smaller international network in CLT and PHL. The fact is that on non meal flights the cost differential between a first class seat and a coach seat is negligible...perhaps a drink or two and a bag of peanuts or chips from the snack basket. In any case, US' direction is clear, and if it works for them great. For every captive PHL or CLT business flyer, however, there are quite a few who will choose the others over US with the small F cabins being a factor. Also, there are other aircraft, albeit smaller, like UA 319's which have only 8 F seats, as to CO 737-500.

I'm not sure "cost" was the primary motivator in this decision -- I suspect it was more "revenue". The previous A321 config had a total of 169 seats. The new one has 183 seats. That's 14 additional seats that can be sold per flight that weren't available previously. Since I rarely see an A321 empty, that could equate to a substantial revenue difference -- possibly the difference between a profitable flight and an unprofitable flight -- especially since US was not selling those F seats that were removed.

16 is a happy medium, in my opinion. I realize not everyone will agree.