Gar....I think you are right....however....until we stop electing idiots to both parties who take money from from big oil,Detroit and the AFL-CIO...you just ain't gonna see those fine foreign cars over here....C'mon....you guys ought to be able to see through party lines here..... 😉
113 cars make over 40MPG
- Thread starter Garfield1966
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Gar....I think you are right....however....until we stop electing idiots to both parties who take money from from big oil,Detroit and the AFL-CIO...you just ain't gonna see those fine foreign cars over here....C'mon....you guys ought to be able to see through party lines here..... 😉
MMB
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Sorry, I don't understand your point. What does a Yugo have to do with a Honda Accord?
777 fixer
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I’m curious as to why they have a picture of a Citroen with the caption “Citroen’s C1 1.4 diesel powered car gets an impressive 57.4 MPG, but you can’t buy one here in USâ€. You know why you can’t buy one here? Well there’s a saying about French cars, unless you live in France don’t buy one. And this has nothing to do with politics. It’s just that the quality is not there. Why do you think Renaults and Peugeots disappeared from US roads years ago?
Garfield1966
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My understanding is quite a bit has changed with some of the European manufactures. As with Jag, since Ford bought them their reliability has become much better.
Be that as it may, that is just one car. As I posted earlier, I rented a Opel Astra. 5 door Diesel, 6 spd manual. It had GPS, great seats, not a rattle to be heard. Very good fit and finish. My sister rented a Ford Focus. Same deal. Neither of us would normally be caught dead in an american car but I would buy that Opel in a heart beat. BMW makes a diesel engine for their entire line, 7 series down to the X1, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Ford, GM ….. they all make diesels for their entire line. They have been doing so for decades. They have been running cleaner (LSD/ULSD) for decades as well. They have been so far ahead of US manufactures for decades. Most of them were running independent rear suspension, disk brakes, ABS, pre-tensioning seat belts … before we even heard of them. Oh yea, forgot to mention. When I was in Europe for 2 weeks, I do not recall seeing a single pick up. I can count the number of SUVs on one hand and yet somehow, they manage to eek out an existence. Go figure.
I feel bad for the people in GM/Ford/Chrysler who will loose their jobs but geez. They got a warning shot across the bow in the 70's. Japan (now Korea and China) are nipping at their heals …. Err correction Japan has mopped the floor with them. Korea and China are waiting in line. Not sure who the dumb asses are but a lot of people are going to get hurt by them and we pay the price with POS cars coming out of Detroit.
Be that as it may, that is just one car. As I posted earlier, I rented a Opel Astra. 5 door Diesel, 6 spd manual. It had GPS, great seats, not a rattle to be heard. Very good fit and finish. My sister rented a Ford Focus. Same deal. Neither of us would normally be caught dead in an american car but I would buy that Opel in a heart beat. BMW makes a diesel engine for their entire line, 7 series down to the X1, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Ford, GM ….. they all make diesels for their entire line. They have been doing so for decades. They have been running cleaner (LSD/ULSD) for decades as well. They have been so far ahead of US manufactures for decades. Most of them were running independent rear suspension, disk brakes, ABS, pre-tensioning seat belts … before we even heard of them. Oh yea, forgot to mention. When I was in Europe for 2 weeks, I do not recall seeing a single pick up. I can count the number of SUVs on one hand and yet somehow, they manage to eek out an existence. Go figure.
I feel bad for the people in GM/Ford/Chrysler who will loose their jobs but geez. They got a warning shot across the bow in the 70's. Japan (now Korea and China) are nipping at their heals …. Err correction Japan has mopped the floor with them. Korea and China are waiting in line. Not sure who the dumb asses are but a lot of people are going to get hurt by them and we pay the price with POS cars coming out of Detroit.
777 fixer
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For some yes but for others no. While the reliability of Jaguars is much better than it used to be they’re not doing so hot right now.
If you look at the line up of Citroen cars most of them are fuel efficient. The problem as I stated before is that they are not known for their reliability. In fact sales in France of French made cars have plunged over the past ten years. Why, because they have this bad habit of breaking down. So if the French themselves won’t buy them what are their chances over here?
Why is that? Is it from past experiences or that you have heard it so many times before and now you think of it as fact? Yes in the past American manufacturers came out with garbage. When I was growing up my parents had a Dodge. That thing was the biggest POS on four wheels. However if you look at the reliability of some of the latest models coming out of Detroit they are competitive with Japanese cars in the same class.
If you had a choice of say buying a VW or let’s say a Saturn which one would you buy? If your choice is a VW all I can say is I hope you enjoy spending time in your local VW dealerships customer lounge. Given the fact that VW consistently have some of the lowest reliability ratings that’s where you’re going to be spending a lot of your time. Speaking of Saturn’s I have one that has over 100000 miles on it. I have yet to have an unscheduled maintenance item come up.
How many people here in the states can afford a BMW, Mercedes or an Audi for that matter. As far as VW are concerned you would have to pay me to drive one. While diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines they also put out more particulate matter along with more NOx. The engines themselves are more expensive as well.
One of the problems Detroit has had over the years is that some people still think they build junk because that’s what they were basically making in seventies and eighties. Another problem is PR. You have to admit the Japanese manufacturers are better at it than Detroit. Toyota refers to recalls as “service campaignsâ€. When people hear “recall†they have images cars blowing up or steering going out in rush hour traffic. Service campaign has a better ring to it.
Lets not forget that Japanese cars get recalled all the time like US built cars do. In fact last year in Japan Toyota was under investigation for criminal negligence in regards to recalls. The people at the center of the investigation were in charge of quality control. Can you imagine if the people in charge of quality control at GM were under investigation here in the states? It would be the led story on the nightly news.
Finally part of the problem Detroit brought upon them selves. In the 90’s as we all know gas was cheap and people wanted big trucks and SUV’s. Detroit responded by spending most of their money satisfying that demand. Which meant they were not putting that much effort into smaller vehicles. Japanese manufacturers came out with their own line up of SUV’s and trucks. However they did not have the wide array that US companies had. They also were updating their smaller cars more often than Detroit was.
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MMB
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> Buying foreign only screws our fellow union brothers
> who are hurting as bad as the airlines were with the
> same screwing results.
No. I’ll spend my hard earned $$$ supporting my family, not some union cranking out cars fit only for the scrap yard before they are ever driven.
My last "American" car was a Ford Thunderbird. I won't go into the nightmare of its maintenance history, but I bought it new, the maintenance headaches started at about 12K miles, and I dumped the thing at 60,000 miles for $500 and was glad to get that. I’ve also owned Dodge, Oldsmobile, and Mercury cars and wouldn’t buy another from any of them. My father-in-law has had to take his Cadillac to the shop more times than he’s driven it to the grocery store.
My last car was a 4 year old Lexus ES250 that had 35K miles on it when I bought it for $14K. At about 75K miles and 6 months out of warrantee the transmission started to slip. The dealership I took the car to verified that it was out of warrantee but said that “Our cars are better than this,†gave me an ES300 loaner and changed the transmission at no cost to me. When I picked the car up they again apologized for the inconvenience and handed me the keys. They had even put the car through their detail shop for a bumper to bumper cleaning inside and out. I never had another problem with that car. I finally sold it with 180K miles for $4,500 and bought a new Honda Accord. The Honda now has 50K miles, runs and looks like new.
> who are hurting as bad as the airlines were with the
> same screwing results.
No. I’ll spend my hard earned $$$ supporting my family, not some union cranking out cars fit only for the scrap yard before they are ever driven.
My last "American" car was a Ford Thunderbird. I won't go into the nightmare of its maintenance history, but I bought it new, the maintenance headaches started at about 12K miles, and I dumped the thing at 60,000 miles for $500 and was glad to get that. I’ve also owned Dodge, Oldsmobile, and Mercury cars and wouldn’t buy another from any of them. My father-in-law has had to take his Cadillac to the shop more times than he’s driven it to the grocery store.
My last car was a 4 year old Lexus ES250 that had 35K miles on it when I bought it for $14K. At about 75K miles and 6 months out of warrantee the transmission started to slip. The dealership I took the car to verified that it was out of warrantee but said that “Our cars are better than this,†gave me an ES300 loaner and changed the transmission at no cost to me. When I picked the car up they again apologized for the inconvenience and handed me the keys. They had even put the car through their detail shop for a bumper to bumper cleaning inside and out. I never had another problem with that car. I finally sold it with 180K miles for $4,500 and bought a new Honda Accord. The Honda now has 50K miles, runs and looks like new.
700IAM
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I finally sold it with 180K miles for $4,500 and bought a new Honda Accord. The Honda now has 50K miles, runs and looks like new.
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Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with this selfish USA with it’s ME ME ME ME society where self comes first at everyone’s pearl. To Hell with you & Hooray for me, the perfect picture of a lost soul.
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Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with this selfish USA with it’s ME ME ME ME society where self comes first at everyone’s pearl. To Hell with you & Hooray for me, the perfect picture of a lost soul.
Seatacus
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I would think that God would like us to spend the money we have wisely.
If we are to use the money to help others then that is where tithing and charities come in.
MMB
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Funny, this sounds like you're talking about UNIONS. “To hell with building a competitive product, we’ll piece together a pile of trash, sell it for what those guys are charging for a good car, and pocket the difference.â€
For me, I want to know that my wife or kids are driving a reliable car that won’t strand them somewhere. The odds are dramatically better with foreign vehicles.
My wife does volunteer work for a battered women’s shelter. We also donate to our local church, the American Cancer Society, and Boy’s Town. Something we would probably not be able to do if we had to pay the constant repair bills for an American UNION made car.
You?
Oh yes, since you brought it up, I believe your post demonstrates Pride, Envy, Anger, and Avarice. 4 out of 7 in just a few lines!
MMB
Senior
pssst, ... Al Gore's 'carbon footprint' is 20 times the national average.
Want to check yours?
http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/carboncalculator/
Dont call me Shirley
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It's easy to get good mileage if the car is hanging behind a tow truck half the time. 😛
I guess things haven't changed much since I had my Rabbit in 80's. I got to meet a lot of tow truck drivers. And write a lot of checks to the mechanic. (My next car was American, a Dodge Shadow. Never broke down, no major problems until 150K miles or so.)
777 fixer
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You have to admit they do make good looking vehicles. Which is good for VW since a lot of car buyers purchase cars based on looks. Without any consideration what's under the hood as the saying goes.
Garfield1966
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I guess I used a poor choice of words. I have not found a US manufactured car that meets my requirements. There are several US cars that I like such as a Corvete, Viper, 300 series, Sky/Solarius (I may have that last name wrong) but they do not meet all my needs. I want a rear wheel drive car, nicely equipped, limited electronics, fuel efficient, safe, more than likely used, decent resale value. My wife just bought a E300 Diesel. It had 61k on the ODO. Bought it for $12k from a dealer. Care is clean as a whistle and makes well over 30mpg on day to day driving. From what I saw, there was nothing on the market that could come to it. Most people do not take care of cars in general. MB/BWM/Audi … tend to be better taken care of do to their cost. Since her car is 12 years old, the only electronics on it are ABS brakes. The AC is push button instead of the older dials but I guess it's the cost of progress. It’s a full size sedan that will hold 5 people. It is pretty easy to do most maintenance on it my self, no need to worry about tunes ups, the engine should last 300k or more. Yes maintenance is a bit more costly but it is a car we will be able to keep for another 10, 15 or more years. My MB is 20 years old and still going strong.
I simply do not see that kind of longevity in US cars, at least not yet.
You drew the comparison between a Saturn and VW. I am a car lover. My car is an extension of who I am to a degree. It is not merely transportation from A to B. I would chose the VW over the Saturn in a heart beat due to the fact that the VW will out perform the Saturn and the VW just looks and feels better IMO. If I was looking for basic transportation from A to B, and was looking for a throw away car after a few years, I'd go with the Saturn. It's going to have lower resale, and while it may cost more to maintain the VW, my hunch is the Saturn will not be worth fixing due to depreciation.
My dad had a 1989 BMW 750IL. The car was a beast. We bought it at an auction. 12 cylinders of raw power. Kept it for 10 years with out any problems. Great mileage on the hwy to, about 23 or 24 at cruising speed. There was not a US car made that could touch it in terms of fit/finish or capability. Cadillac and Lincoln are the only luxury US manufactures and they did not have sh1t in 89 that could even come close.
I am partial to German cars. They have been building cars that are meant to be driven for decades and they are very very good at it. That's why they are the bench mark that everyone else strives for. My wifes 300 will do 120 130 all day long if asked to and it won't over heat, won't float all over the road at speed. It will do what it is designed to do. The US is starting to design cars to be driven. Corvett can finally be in the same sentence as a Porch 911 with people laughing.
The bottom line seems to be that while US cars are getting better, they have a way to go to break away from their history. They still don’t make cars that compete on the styling and mileage level of Japan and Europe. It's like we are a step behind and a dollar short. The big 3 are still hanging their fortunes on trucks and SUV's while everyone else see the writing on the wall about fuel prices. Does any US manufacture even have a clean diesel on the block for 2008? MB and VW do. I thought I heard the Honda will as well. Chrysler has a diesel 300 in Europe? Why not here. The engine is MB engine which is being sold here in the US in MB's, why not the 300?
