14039 Title I

[Bob Owens]

On the 10/1/02 seniority list there were 14039 Title I workers. In Jan of 2006 the list was down to 10,400 which means the list is likely below 10,000 now.

During the concessions fiasco of 2003 the company said give us the 25% or 2500 jobs will be cut. So the TWU gave them the 25% and 4000 jobs.

But as Gless said, they are still working hand in hand with the company to eliminate even more jobs.


Massive job losses, massive pay cuts, and union leaders that still want to make management shine. What are your dues monies doing for you?

 

[eolesen]

How much of that was normal attrition (resignations, retirements, etc.) which would have still occurred with or without the job cuts?

IIRC, AA agreed to carry more heads for the short term, but wouldn't recall at the same rate as attrition. That minimized job losses in the long run.

Personally, I would have rather seen lower pay cuts and larger job cuts. The line probably wouldn't have been as impacted as the bases, but that's probably exactly why the TWU opted for more dues, er, jobs.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Crandell stated from the start eliminate jobs and leave the pay alone


The company union gave them everything

I cant wait to see the concessionary agreement for April 2008

twu dues money

is like hiring a hit man to kill yourself

 

[Bob Owens]

How much of that was normal attrition (resignations, retirements, etc.) which would have still occurred with or without the job cuts?

If somebody is not replaced the circumstances under which they left doesnt change the fact that a position was eliminated.

IIRC, AA agreed to carry more heads for the short term, but wouldn't recall at the same rate as attrition.

That was never mentioned as part of the agreement.

That minimized job losses in the long run.

??? It may have minimized layoffs but not job losses.

 

[Bill]

I have heard time and time again from more than one person on these boards that mechaincs at AA are way over staffed...too many heads....and NOW Mr Owens wants to pull up numbers and now that they are decreased he complains. What is it Bob....overmanned or under manned???? You tend to blow things way out of porportion when it benefits you. I think you yourself noted on several occasions that folks were retiring, quitting like crazy. Use your own reasoning Bob. If we are overmanned and folks are retiring etc...then common sense tells you they WON'T be replaced.

Get your crap together and debate something you aren't flip-flopping on. You are simply trying to stir sh*t up. Nice try....

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I have heard time and time again from more than one person on these boards that mechaincs at AA are way over staffed...too many heads....and NOW Mr Owens wants to pull up numbers and now that they are decreased he complains. What is it Bob....overmanned or under manned???? You tend to blow things way out of porportion when it benefits you. I think you yourself noted on several occasions that folks were retiring, quitting like crazy. Use your own reasoning Bob. If we are overmanned and folks are retiring etc...then common sense tells you they WON'T be replaced.

Get your crap together and debate something you aren't flip-flopping on. You are simply trying to stir sh*t up. Nice try....

If you can't discuss the issues, attack the person.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

[Bill]

If you can't discuss the issues, attack the person.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

Not attacking anyone. Simply pointing out yet another contridiction. Tell me Wrench, that you have NOT heard it said here by many that mechanics are overmanned.

If you do then you would be lying. This can't be argued. If you're overmanned then you cut back on heads....whether it be thru layoffs, attrition, retirements, death, firings, quitting....it's not rocket science.

 

[Vortilon]

Not attacking anyone. Simply pointing out yet another contradiction. Tell me Wrench, that you have NOT heard it said here by many that mechanics are overmanned.

If you do then you would be lying. This can't be argued. If you're overmanned then you cut back on heads....whether it be thru layoffs, attrition, retirements, death, firings, quitting....it's not rocket science.

Overmanned in overhaul to be sure, but certainly not out on the line. There is a big difference. 😉

 

[Wretched Wrench]

We are either overmanned or undermanned. It changes hour by hour, depending on how broke the airplanes are and how successful we are in our efforts to fix them.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I have heard time and time again from more than one person on these boards that mechaincs at AA are way over staffed...too many heads....and NOW Mr Owens wants to pull up numbers and now that they are decreased he complains. What is it Bob....overmanned or under manned???? You tend to blow things way out of porportion when it benefits you. I think you yourself noted on several occasions that folks were retiring, quitting like crazy. Use your own reasoning Bob. If we are overmanned and folks are retiring etc...then common sense tells you they WON'T be replaced.

Get your crap together and debate something you aren't flip-flopping on. You are simply trying to stir sh*t up. Nice try....

Crandell stated from the start eliminate jobs and leave the pay alone


The company union gave them everything

I cant wait to see the concessionary agreement for April 2008

twu dues money

is like hiring a hit man to kill yourself

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Earth to Bill,

Bob Owens is stating facts about our title 1 numbers. I was there at negotiations 2003 and all the TWU kept saying was to take the concessions and preserve our jobs. They did not preserve anything. When people died or left they were not replaced. The TWU did nothing to keep the headcount we had after 2003. Do the math Bill it is very simple. the company got the money and the layoffs in the 2003 agreement and then their bonus was continued headcount reduction since 2003. We recieve no credit for the additional headcount reduction and we work with less people. Where is the benefit to anyone but the company? I would appreciate for you to explain this to me so I may understand where I am misguided with this.

 

[TWU informer]

Not attacking anyone. Simply pointing out yet another contridiction. Tell me Wrench, that you have NOT heard it said here by many that mechanics are overmanned.

If you do then you would be lying. This can't be argued. If you're overmanned then you cut back on heads....whether it be thru layoffs, attrition, retirements, death, firings, quitting....it's not rocket science.

With the TWU, it is possible to be over manned while claiming to save the jobs, then through attrition fail to save those very jobs that were claimed to have been saved by massive concessions.

The point is Bill, that a job eliminated through attrition is not a job saved through concessions.

You know damn good and well what the point here is, but you want to use playground rhetoric to attempt to decieve.

YES the over manned situtation was caused by concessions for jobs.

YES the jobs that were suppose to have been saved by those concessions have now been eleminated through attrition and RIF's of unprotected TWA M&R.

What part of AA got the concessions and the jobs don't you understand? Are you really that stupid? If yes, you are indeed a Local 514 incumbent officer.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

What part of AA got the concessions and the jobs don't you understand? Are you really that stupid? If yes, you are indeed a Local 514 incumbent officer.

😀

 

[Bob Owens]

Earth to Bill,

Bob Owens is stating facts about our title 1 numbers. I was there at negotiations 2003 and all the TWU kept saying was to take the concessions and preserve our jobs. They did not preserve anything. When people died or left they were not replaced. The TWU did nothing to keep the headcount we had after 2003. Do the math Bill it is very simple. the company got the money and the layoffs in the 2003 agreement and then their bonus was continued headcount reduction since 2003. We recieve no credit for the additional headcount reduction and we work with less people. Where is the benefit to anyone but the company? I would appreciate for you to explain this to me so I may understand where I am misguided with this.

Thanks for setting Bill straight. Nowhere did I mention in the post whether there was a shortage or not,thats the company's problem. I simply stated the facts that the TWU said we had to give up 25% of our compensation in order to save 2500 jobs, then they let the company take the 25% and 4000 jobs.

The pilots were given back 10% the first year, that same year we got an adjustment of 1.5% which was half the annual inflation rate.

 

[ch53D]

On the 10/1/02 seniority list there were 14039 Title I workers. In Jan of 2006 the list was down to 10,400 which means the list is likely below 10,000 now.

During the concessions fiasco of 2003 the company said give us the 25% or 2500 jobs will be cut. So the TWU gave them the 25% and 4000 jobs.

But as Gless said, they are still working hand in hand with the company to eliminate even more jobs.
Massive job losses, massive pay cuts, and union leaders that still want to make management shine. What are your dues monies doing for you?

Bob

Here’s some numbers. These numbers are ONLY TITLE I. Since 2003.

RIF 2250

Retired 1105

Deceased 21

Stock Clerks 37

Terminated 12

Management 54

American Eagle 43

Resigned ?