How Come The Pilots Know More Than The Twu

[Bob Owens]

Suppliment D-3 of the pilots contract says that we had 16,263 mechanics on Jan 2003.

How come the TWU and the company are claiming that we have more now?

Shouldnt both parties have an accurate number? Did the company issue options to the 20,000 people they claim are on the headcount? Did they issue options to people who are already dead? Is the TWU collecting dues from dead people?

How is it that both the company and the TWU, who both agreed that we had around 16000 in our class and craft, from what they told the pilots and what they told the NMB could claim that now they have up to 21000? In January 2003 the company only had 95810 employees, and that was before the layoffs. They claim to have reduced headcount by 9300, or around 10%. They now only have 85000 employees. Are we to believe that 25% of the total employment of AA is mechanics? That we have now become the largest workgroup at AA?

Over the last three years the company has eliminated approximately 36,300 jobs!

Clearly something is afoot between the company and the union. Clearly there is intent to misleed because you cant expect anyone to believe that while the company has eliminated 36000 jobs over the last three years that maintenance has increased by 5000 jobs since the TWU filed with the NMB for representation following the TWA aquisition.

The pilots contract, Suppliment D-3 titled "Equity Participation by Labor Group" lists mechanics at 16263 as of Jan 2003. The TWU claimed we had around the same when they filed with the NMB, and the company seniority list puts us at around 14000 now. How could these numbers have gone up, even counting the layoffs to the point where they are thousands higher than we ever had?

 

[local 12 proud]

bob it's quite easy, "THEY CAN DO THAT BROTHERRRRR" :angry:

 

[Decision 2004]

American Airlines Hourly Pilot Pay...

Want to compare to other airlines?

Airline Pilot Pay Website

 

[Bob Owens]

I dont want to turn this into a pissing contrest with the pilots but the TWU cites the fact that the pilots gave concessions too as justification for what they did to us.

The point is that they were not dumb enough to gut their contract like we did and in the end the pilots still will have a good job.

The TWU has destroyed the profession to the point where the only places where this is a good job is in lowest cost areas of the country.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The point is that they were not dumb enough to gut their contract like we did and in the end the pilots still will have a good job.

Bob, the twu is not dumb really. They are inept, greedy and sell out individuals who care NOTHING about our profession.

Would twuer, cio, bill, james t. kirk, etc. care to explain why the pilots were able to negotiate a better concession package than jim little's voted version?

 

[j7915]

The point is that they were not dumb enough to gut their contract like we did and in the end the pilots still will have a good job.

Bob, the twu is not dumb really. They are inept, greedy and sell out individuals who care NOTHING about our profession.

Would twuer, cio, bill, james t. kirk, etc. care to explain why the pilots were able to negotiate a better concession package than jim little's voted version?

Don't know about you Ken, but in the end I too still have a good job. And still make more than before the concession debacle and narrow escape from the BK court. Of course you are more of a gambler and would prefer to go before the BK judge, after what happened to UAL?

Do you have enough seniority not to be bumped if AA had closed most of overhaul? The judge might have even given TWAers full seniority annulling our contract then what?

 

[Bob Owens]

Don't know about you Ken, but in the end I too still have a good job. And still make more than before the concession debacle and narrow escape from the BK court.

So you must be on the TWU payroll. It was something to see how they gave themselves raises by negotiating away our benifits.

Of course you are more of a gambler and would prefer to go before the BK judge, after what happened to UAL?

Life is a risk. We lost without even betting.If we had gambled at least we would have a chance of winning.

Do you have enough seniority not to be bumped if AA had closed most of overhaul? The judge might have even given TWAers full seniority annulling our contract then what?

Why would AA have contracted out most of overhaul when our pre-concession costs were lower than United post bankruptcy costs? UAL did not have OSMs.

Tell us once again how the TWU is structured like a corporation. We are not the TWUs members, we are its commodity.

 

[Buck]

J7915:

Do you have enough seniority not to be bumped if AA had closed most of overhaul The judge might have even given TWAers full seniority annulling our contract then what?

I believe that regardless of my position on "dovetailing" of the former TWA members, if at any time these members are given their full seniority, the TWU has failed the original membership. Now that you were not damaged, the truth finally comes out that you condone the concessionary contract to protect only yourself. And you question my unionism???

 

[Decision 2004]

Don't know about you Ken, but in the end I too still have a good job. And still make more than before the concession debacle and narrow escape from the BK court.

Can you give me the details on how you calculate that you still make more than before the 17.5% paycut?

I was making considerably more before the Jim "without further ratification" debacle.

And most members including myself, were even making more with overtime before the 2001 contract was signed.

In fact, I made more money in 1999 and 2000 than I ever have since.

 

[Rusty]

Don't know about you Ken, but in the end I too still have a good job. And still make more than before the concession debacle and narrow escape from the BK court.

I have figured you were in management all along but, I did not consider maybe you were with the twu, well, there isn't much difference anyway!!! Congradulations on your raises.

 

[Bob Owens]

J7915;
The two thousand or so TWA mechanics, if dovetailed would have had little effect on most of the system except for the Northeast and California.

And why would the Judge annul the contract?

What was "onerous" about our agreement when you consider that the concessions gained by UAL and USAIR in BK in 2003 were things that we gave away in 1983? UAL and USAIR could have used the AA/TWU agreement to make a case that their contracts were onerous compared to the largest airline in the industry(AA) but what arguement could AA have used to abrogate our agreeement when the TWU had been consistantly giving industry leading concessions for twenty years?Lubys spin about the printers contract that was abrogated in Bankruptcy left out the fact that the contract was geared to a past era where the skills and the jobs that were protected were made redundant by technology. In other words there were clear differences between our situation and the cases that the TWU cited.

As far as outsourcing why would the company outsource when they were already doing it cheaper in house?

 

[Decision 2004]

As far as outsourcing why would the company outsource when they were already doing it cheaper in house?

The only one I have come up with of late is kick backs.

There have been instances in the past which were proven, but I think there are more unproven going on right now. Either that or this company was never really near Bankruptcy and cutting cost is not the only true agenda.

We not only have the lowest average wage in the indsutry, we are currently watching wokers sit idle with no work in Tulsa.

AA could be getting outsourced work done for free and it still isn't cheaper to send it out, because someone is on the payroll and idle, that could have done that work. How can it be cheaper to pay a mechanic with nothing to do, while sending work he could do out the door?

Maybe one of you with an accounting degree can explain how that works.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Don't know about you Ken, but in the end I too still have a good job. And still make more than before the concession debacle and narrow escape from the BK court. Of course you are more of a gambler and would prefer to go before the BK judge, after what happened to UAL?

Do you have enough seniority not to be bumped if AA had closed most of overhaul? The judge might have even given TWAers full seniority annulling our contract then what?

You should know about me j7915 because I am just like every other AMT at AA that was lied to and had wages and benefits taken from him. I am making LESS than before the concessions. How is it that you are making more? You have a good job? I am glad. I have a job too. But now it is just a "job". Because of jim little, the twu and AA treating my profession with disrespect and lies my "job" is not what it once was.
I am not really a gamble j7915, I am a person that is educated and believes in his beliefs and morals. I did not fear a BK filing. We are in a BK filing because AA got their "Vermont" plan with little's help. The only thing missing is that AA did not go after the retirement... yet. I would trust a BK Judge more than little and AA any day. They both lie and steal from the employees. A BK is not for FIVE long years either. It is better to stand and fight than to cowardly fall. (No bravado here j7915. We simply believe differently.)
Seniority? I hired on in June 6, 1986 along with about 22 other AMTs in NY. Half went to JFK the other went to LGA. My seniority does not influence my beliefs. What is right and wrong are what influence my belifs and my belief in God.
If the Judge had given the TWA AMTs their full seniroity so be it. They did not get it so what is your point?

 

[Rusty]

Ken, one other thing they did not go after from the "Vermont plan", was the 3+ million dollars they pay some twu officers.
Happy Mothers Day!!!

 

[amt for amfa]

i7915 the truth is AA did not want to cut the mechanics pay and benefits or lay off more than they did that was the twu's idea .AA wanted to cut fleet service and be able to use more part time workers on the ramp. The mechanics pay has been competitive with the rest of the indrustry for years including the low cost carriers. this is the problem with having workers with different skill levels represented by the same union. The sooner we build and prove the concept of craft unions the sooner we gain some control over the greedy self serving executives and rid ourselves of the leeches known as the "industrial unions". If you really want to gain insight into the strength of craft unions, talk to anyone who has moved here from Italy.