20 days, before a concession becomes a giveback !!

Aug 20, 2002
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The calendar on the wall tells me that in 20 days, AA''s payroll dept. (by law) has to increase our pay(TWU) by 3%.
Because it''s virtually impossible(in 20 days) to send out ballots,and count them, then we(TWU) will see our paychecks reflect the increase.
That would mean, that we would go from a Concession, to a GIVE back.
(I''m assumeing that the TWU keeps it'';s word, and puts everything to a vote.)
Assuming that we can equate different things ($$$) to equal $620 ,and we don''t go BK-11, (IMHO)I think THE #1 biggest HIT will be Massive layoffs .
Your thoughts ??????????
NH/BB''s
 

Buck

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Are you positive that the membership will have the final say. Even if they vote against concessions, will the TWU just say they were confused, just like the IAM has in the past?
 

DFWFSC

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Aug 20, 2002
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Any idea on the cost of the 3% raise over a years time ? Will it even put a dent in what the TWU is obligated to pony up?

My guess is that were looking at giving up the 3% raise or more, along with a week or two of VC, 2-3 hoidays, maybe shift differential and or paid lunches and penalty hours. Also, plenty of outsourcing could be in the works. More productivity is going to a major issue a well.

Now if we could just convince AA that we really don;t need 100 CSM's driving around the ramp at DFW wasting gas. Im sorry, but if AA is going to pay somebody $40-$60,000 a year, it needs to be somebody that's going to load cargo, change a MD-80 tire, or check a passenger in for a flight, etc..and not somebody worried about the orange cones being in the right spot.
 
OP
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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 6:54:36 PM DFWFSC wrote:


Any idea on the cost of the 3% raise over a years time ? Will it even put a dent in what the TWU is obligated to pony up?

My guess is that were looking at giving up the 3% raise or more, along with a week or two of VC, 2-3 hoidays, maybe shift differential and or paid lunches and penalty hours. Also, plenty of outsourcing could be in the works. More productivity is going to a major issue a well.

Now if we could just convince AA that we really don;t need 100 CSM's driving around the ramp at DFW wasting gas. Im sorry, but if AA is going to pay somebody $40-$60,000 a year, it needs to be somebody that's going to load cargo, change a MD-80 tire, or check a passenger in for a flight, etc..and not somebody worried about the orange cones being in the right spot.
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DFWFSC,
I agree with everything you've said.
I just get a(BAD) feeling that "MEGA #'s" of TWU people are soon to become "history"

NH/BB's
 
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bagsmasher

Guest
First of all, I believe we will be declaring BK this year no matter what. If we are really losing $3.5 billion a year right now, even if all the work groups agree to the cuts right now, there isn't enough time to get the savings in place before our money runs out. Maybe they can borrow more, but AMR is already in $20 billion + debt, and digging the hole deeper. I think Carty knows that we are heading to BK court soon, and he is trying to blame it all on labor. He knows that there is no way all the work groups will agree to his demands.
 
OP
N
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 6:45:22 PM Buck wrote:

Are you positive that the membership will have the final say. Even if they vote against concessions, will the TWU just say they were confused, just like the IAM has in the past?
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[/blockquote]
Buck, I know, that you know, that I never put ANYTHING past the "weak sister" TWU !!

NH/BB's
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/8/2003 5:30:46 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

The calendar on the wall tells me that in 20 days, AA's payroll dept. (by law) has to increase our pay(TWU) by 3%.

Because it's virtually impossible(in 20 days) to send out ballots,and count them, then we(TWU) will see our paychecks reflect the increase.

That would mean, that we would go from a Concession, to a GIVE back.
(I'm assumeing that the TWU keeps it';s word, and puts "everything" to a vote.)

Assuming that we can equate different things ($$$) to equal $620 ,and we don't go BK-11, (IMHO)I think THE #1 biggest "HIT" will be Massive layoffs .

Your thoughts ??????????

NH/BB's
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[/blockquote]

This means that the top out mechanic will only have to come up with an additional $15,000.00 in savings. Man, I feel better already!
 
We all remember the "It depends on what your definition of is, is". The Capo de Tuti Capi/ Italian for the Boss of Bosses/
Don Carty has told us that Mgmnt has been reduced by 22%, this is the same man who made a big issue in 2001 about not getting paid for the last quarter and not accepting a 200k raise, but what you weren't told is that he went from 1.5yrs to 2yrs for every 1 he works in the pension plan, so if he stays for 30yrs he gets his pension figured at 60yrs. Now a majority of the so called 22% are positions that were vacant anyway, they just are not getting filled. They told us the same thing here in TUL several years ago when they said we were getting rid of a bunch of managers, true we got rid of a bunch of Manager positions, but they just gave them a new name, Directors. No wonder there is so much hate between Mgmnt and Labor.
The writing is on the wall boys and girls, don't forget what happened at US, they gave and gave consessions and they still have had massive layoffs, UA will probably be the same way, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 6:54:36 PM DFWFSC wrote:





Now if we could just convince AA that we really don;t need 100 CSM's driving around the ramp at DFW wasting gas. Im sorry, but if AA is going to pay somebody $40-$60,000 a year, it needs to be somebody that's going to load cargo, change a MD-80 tire, or check a passenger in for a flight, etc..and not somebody worried about the orange cones being in the right spot.
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[/blockquote]
My guess is they're keeping all these excess managers as "chips" to ante up when we make our concessions. Then we'll see the company jettison them.
 
Dec 5, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 7:31:32 PM bagsmasher wrote:

I think Carty knows that we are heading to BK court soon, and he is trying to blame it all on labor. He knows that there is no way all the work groups will agree to his demands.
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[/blockquote]

Well, a lucid argument could be mad that AA's problems are its cost structure, and labor makes up 40%+ of that. The rest are somewhat inflexible (fuel, rent, external service charges,...).
 

TIME FOR CHANGE

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Feb 9, 2003
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FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY
Let AA claim bankruptcy. They arent going to get a dime from me unless they do. I would rather pay later then give some now and then give again later. No matter what you give it will never be enough. Not only will it not be enough but you will never see it again.Look at history it has been proven over and over. BTW when times were good did AA say lets open up the contract and give you all back that 8 hour day you use to have? NOT See you on the unemployment line HA HA HA HA
 

mwa

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
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It could be that all those CSM's are going to replace Crew Chiefs in the near future and provide a way to keep the operation going in the event of labor action.
 
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bagsmasher

Guest
Rational Thought writes:
"Well, a lucid argument could be mad that AA's problems are its cost structure, and labor makes up 40%+ of that. The rest are somewhat inflexible (fuel, rent, external service charges,...)."



Why don't you check on WN's costs. It seems that WN pays 39% of revenue to labor costs. So are we out of line?
 

rampguy

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Aug 21, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/8/2003 6:45:22 PM Buck wrote:

Are you positive that the membership will have the final say. Even if they vote against concessions, will the TWU just say they were confused, just like the IAM has in the past?
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[/blockquote]

Sorry Buck but I was in the IAM for over 30 yrs and that didn't happen.
 

Buck

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Aug 20, 2002
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US Airways pushes unions for concessions
By JOHN CRAWLEY
Reuters


WASHINGTON - Bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. (UAWGQ.PK) on Friday postponed plans to try to void the contracts of two big labor unions next week, after its ticket and reservation agents tentatively agreed to concessions and its mechanics said they would vote again on a giveback plan.

The announcements by the company and the International Association of Machinists and the Communications Workers of America ended months of talks. It also capped a scramble this week by US Airways to nail down concessions from all its unions as part of its drive to reorganize its finances under Chapter 11 and secure a $900 million federal loan guarantee.

US Airways has already won ratified concession packages worth more than $500 million from its pilots and flight attendants. The company wants to cut overall costs by $1.3 billion annually. The federal loan guarantee has been approved on the condition that it slash labor costs.

US Airways had planned to ask a federal bankruptcy judge in Alexandria, Virginia, next Tuesday to throw out the contracts of unions that had not negotiated concessions. By Friday, the IAM, which represents 6,800 mechanics and related workers and the CWA, which represents 8,000 employees, were the only two groups that had not done that.

Neither side would disclose terms of the company's proposal with the CWA, but the union's leadership recommended that members accept it. The company had been seeking a reported $70 million in concessions from that group.

The machinists rejected a $150 million in concessions last week but union leaders agreed to hold another vote, citing possible confusion about the consequences of opposing the proposal.

Both the IAM and CWA votes will be completed on Sept. 17, union officials said.

"What we're trying to do is make sure they have a full understanding of the facts before they vote," said Joseph Tiberi, a spokesman for the machinists union.

Tiberi said many members were confused over the consequences of rejecting the initial proposal. Some thought US Airways might come back with a better offer, while others thought the bankruptcy court could only modify their contract, not reject it entirely as the company planned to seek.

Separately, the company backed off plans to toughen conditions on nonrefundable tickets after criticism from business travelers.

US Airways said in August it was slashing frequent flyer benefits and standby flights to budget travelers.

But the revised policy will now permit travelers with nonrefundable tickets, which are generally cheaper and do not allow for travel flexibility, to fly standby for a $100 fee. The change, set to start on Jan. 1, matches a policy set by rival American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp. (AMR.N)

US Airways also said customers with nonrefundable tickets will again be able to count miles flown with those tickets toward premium levels in their frequent flier accounts.

"We heard from many customers about our changes, and we are responding in a way that should please most of them," said B. Ben Baldanza, US Airways senior vice president of marketing and planning.

Depressed travel demand and shrinking corporate travel budgets since Sept. 11 have contributed to the industry's staggering financial crisis. Leading carriers are slashing costs to offset revenue shortfalls, cutting everything from extra utensils to wages.