2014 Investor Day presentation

[Kev3188]

That droll wit sail right by you, or what?

 

[WorldTraveler]

nice try but it wasn't droll wit, Kevin.

 

[Kev3188]

Sure it was.

But hey, next time just for you I'll throw in some emoticons.

You're welcome.

 

[commavia]

Keep repeating it over and over if it makes you feel better.  Just more for us to laugh at.
 
LAWA already did make deals with AA - including several that it now cannot make with Delta even if it wanted to.  There is only one regional satellite terminal on the south side - and AA now has it.  There were only four gates in T6 up for grabs - AA now has them.  Only one airline can get first dibs on any and all south side gates that become available - and LAWA agreed to AA being that one airline.  LAWA agreed to give AA gating rights at TBIT, and LAWA agreed to build a direct, sterile connection between AA's main terminal and TBIT.
 
LAX is under strict gate caps that aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so the ship has sailed for Delta adding more gates at LAX other than at terminals far away from T5/T6.  It's that simple - this is the reality for those willing to accept it.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Sure it was.

But hey, next time just for you I'll throw in some emoticons.

You're welcome.

and some Christmas confetti too, otay?
 
 

Keep repeating it over and over if it makes you feel better.  Just more for us to laugh at.
 
LAWA already did make deals with AA - including several that it now cannot make with Delta even if it wanted to.  There is only one regional satellite terminal on the south side - and AA now has it.  There were only four gates in T6 up for grabs - AA now has them.  Only one airline can get first dibs on any and all south side gates that become available - and LAWA agreed to AA being that one airline.  LAWA agreed to give AA gating rights at TBIT, and LAWA agreed to build a direct, sterile connection between AA's main terminal and TBIT.
 
LAX is under strict gate caps that aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so the ship has sailed for Delta adding more gates at LAX other than at terminals far away from T5/T6.  It's that simple - this is the reality for those willing to accept it.

no, LAWA has signed NOTHING that gives AA exclusive access to any gates that will be constructed.

LAWA will construct gates and AA gets some but AA does not get them all.

and there is nothing that stops DL or any other carrier from acquiring gates just as AA just did.

Bottom line is that your dreams of gate dominance aren't even realistic, let alone the notion of market dominance.

 

[commavia]

AA does indeed have exclusive use of T4, the Eagle satellite, and now four gates in T6, and gating rights at TBIT, plus the exclusive right of first refusal to any gates that become available on the south side of LAX.  Delta has none of that - instead it has exclusive use of T5 plus non-exclusive use to a few T6 gates.  Period.  This is reality.
 
So yes, there is at least one thing stopping Delta from "acquiring" gates just as AA did - they first need to find someone willing to "sell."  Every single gate on the south side of LAX is now, in one way or another, completely spoken for - nothing available for Delta to "acquire" in T4, T5, T6, T7 or T8.  That means the "closest" gates Delta could theoretically "acquire" would be in TBIT, and absent that, we're talking about the north side.  Have fun with that, Delta - like I said, hope the "strategic plan" includes buses.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and none of that list is being constructed new.

No one has ever suggested that AA would lose any of what it has.

you seem to believe that the south side is the only side of LAX. It is not.

and you also don't seem to be able to understand that LAX will construct for the benefit of the airport, not AA.

it is amazing how quickly you want to castigate DL for holding onto a route authority but you don't want to allow competition - just as AA execs said regarding DAL. They were wrong. Legacy carriers have managed to remain there - AA is the only one out in its own hometown (or metro area).

Either competition is good for all or it is good for no one. you can't have it both ways.

and since AA is using busses to connect its far-flung LAX operation, I have a hard time seeing how you have any basis for criticizing DL to do the same. TO argue that boarding a bus in order to sit in a cattle pen is superior to just bussing to a gate seems more than a little AArrogant.

 

[topDawg]

Well I sure hope those "strategic options" include a large fleet of buses - because that's what's going to be required to get to the closest terminal that would even have a chance at open gate space.

Which would be different from the AA set up how? 


 

LAWA already did make deals with AA - including several that it now cannot make with Delta even if it wanted to.

The only thing LAWA can't really do is give Delta the first rights on South side gates which will end for AA soon. TBIT gates, T6 gates are all possible. 
 

There is only one regional satellite terminal on the south side - and AA now has it.  There were only four gates in T6 up for grabs - AA now has them.

No AA has them till 2016. At which point United will have the option to renew its lease on T6(and then sub-lease or, who knows maybe take the gates back for themselves) or those 4 gates will revert back to LAWA control. At that point it will be up to LAWA DL or AA(Or AS) to work it out. Very Very possible LAWA makes T6 all CUTE. 
 

Only one airline can get first dibs on any and all south side gates that become available - and LAWA agreed to AA being that one airline.  LAWA agreed to give AA gating rights at TBIT, and LAWA agreed to build a direct, sterile connection between AA's main terminal and TBIT.

 ugh not this again. It ends in a few weeks or Jan 1 2016. I can't remember which. 
 
More importantly it ends before the United lease at T6 ends which means Delta and American will be making a deal with LAWA. (and more than likely LAWA will make T6 all common use) 
 
Also LAWA can give Delta rights to TBIT too........Oh wait. Delta already uses TBIT. 
 

LAX is under strict gate caps that aren't going anywhere anytime soon, so the ship has sailed for Delta adding more gates at LAX other than at terminals far away from T5/T6.  It's that simple - this is the reality for those willing to accept it.

 You are glass housing a little bit. AA doesn't have LAX on lock down, even though.......for whatever reason......its ever AA fan boys little dream. 
 
Also, I am willing to bet that once LAWA gets what it wants (TBIT finished) it will admit that the stupid idea of moving the world to ONT was a failure and they need more gates at LAX. I bet they get some too. 
 
 

and now four gates in T6,

No. This is not correct. You and MAH can keep saying till you turn blue in the face but it simply isn't true.
 
AA has a short term sublease on those gates. What happens on the long term with them is up to United and LAWA in 2016. What would be funny is if United leased them back and did the sublease just to get AA's two gates at ORD.  

and gating rights at TBIT,

Also not completely true. AA has 1st rights at TBIT for International flights only. They will only get first rights from domestic flights depending on the mid field project. 
 
and as it is Delta uses TBIT for a few flights also. 
 

plus the exclusive right of first refusal to any gates that become available on the south side of LAX.

Again, only for a little bit longer. It ends before United's lease on TBIT. 
 

Delta has none of that - instead it has exclusive use of T5 plus non-exclusive use to a few T6 gates.  Period.  This is reality.

ugh. period nothing. 
Delta has a direct lease from LAWA on three T6 gates. DL also has a lease with AS that allows AS to use those gates. DL/AS work with each other but Delta's lease is on 68A/B and 69A. (68B/69A happen to be the only gates at T6 that can handle a 772/744/77W) 
 
 

So yes, there is at least one thing stopping Delta from "acquiring" gates just as AA did - they first need to find someone willing to "sell."  Every single gate on the south side of LAX is now, in one way or another, completely spoken for - nothing available for Delta to "acquire" in T4, T5, T6, T7 or T8.  That means the "closest" gates Delta could theoretically "acquire" would be in TBIT, and absent that, we're talking about the north side.  Have fun with that, Delta - like I said, hope the "strategic plan" includes buses.

 
and again, If Delta grabs some space in TBIT or T2 it would be a lot like AA. All over the place. 
 
 
 
anyways, in the real world I have a plan on my computer from a LAWA study for Terminal 9. It would be an 8-10 gate terminal. Oddly enough guess who LAWA would have to make a deal with for terminal 9? (I'll give you a hint, it starts with D) 
Depending on what happens with TBIT and the runways on the north field this would likely be what happens. 
 
(spoiler, they would have to make a deal with Delta. Delta's GSE shop is right where the terminal would go. Also a part of that is Delta's lease on the wideboy bay at the western hangar and the run up hole and parking spots around it. Of course rumors are floating around that LAWA/Delta/United are going to be doing some dealing here soon too.)

 

[topDawg]

Nice. Any idea (or even WAGS) where?
 

not sure. hopefully Dallas..... 

 

[commavia]

Which would be different from the AA set up how?

 
AA's gates will be in TBIT, T4, T6 and the Eagle satellite - spanning pretty much the entirety of the south side of LAX from west to east.  Suboptimal, to be sure, but at least all linked behind security.  At this point, Delta has no realistic prospect for adding much if any additional gate space on the south side of LAX, where its operations are currently located, to say nothing of all behind security.  And it's hard to envision that changing anytime soon, since there aren't many if any gates at T4, T5, T6, T7 or T8 that are likely to become available anytime soon.
 

You are glass housing a little bit. AA doesn't have LAX on lock down, even though.......for whatever reason......its ever AA fan boys little dream.

 
Who ever said AA had LAX "on lock down?"  All that many of us have said is that, at least for the time being, and into the foreseeable future, AA does have a structural advantage at LAX due to gates.  I don't really understand how that is debatable.  It is no different than how Delta has a structural advantage at LGA due to slots.  Again - not sure how it's debatable.  Now, could Delta gain access to more gates at the airport if/when they become available?  Of course.  But the point is that at this point Delta has no realistic, attractive prospects for doing that - any gates that would be available at this point would all be relatively inconvenient and less attractive to Delta's existing LAX operation - even more inconvenient than AA's already-sprawling operations.
 

ugh. period nothing. 
Delta has a direct lease from LAWA on three T6 gates. DL also has a lease with AS that allows AS to use those gates. DL/AS work with each other but Delta's lease is on 68A/B and 69A. (68B/69A happen to be the only gates at T6 that can handle a 772/744/77W) 

 
Go back and reread what I wrote.  I didn't say that Delta didn't have a "direct lease from LAWA" on T6 gates.  What I said was that it had "non-exclusive use" on those gates - it has been my understanding that Delta has preferential use of those T6 gates, but other airlines can use them.  Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[WorldTraveler]

all you have repeatedly insinuated is that AA has some exclusive access that other carriers cannot and will not.

we get the whole idea that AA has an operation that is NOW behind security... but it just happened after how many years?

You act as if AA can do something now and no other carrier can figure out how to make its own situation work.

and you still can't change the reality that no amount of gates is going to change the competitive nature of LAX which means that AA will have to expand into markets that are highly competitive and which other carriers will aggressively defend, esp. to Asia.

just as Putin is having to seriously consider giving up on Ukraine because of its failing economy, AA will find that the competitive growth and changing economics in AA's key markets will force it to pull back from all of its expansion.

 

[topDawg]

AA's gates will be in TBIT, T4, T6 and the Eagle satellite - spanning pretty much the entirety of the south side of LAX from west to east.  Suboptimal, to be sure, but at least all linked behind security.  At this point, Delta has no realistic prospect for adding much if any additional gate space on the south side of LAX, where its operations are currently located, to say nothing of all behind security.  And it's hard to envision that changing anytime soon, since there aren't many if any gates at T4, T5, T6, T7 or T8 that are likely to become available anytime soon.

 
If Delta added a gate a T1 it would be the same as the box. That is my point. 
 
For a large part of American flights you get to ride bus. It would be no different if Delta were to add gate at TBIT or the north side. 
 
 
and really TBIT and T2 might take about as long to get to as going over to the box. 
 
 
(and of course if Delta adds gates a TBIT they can use that brand new bridge LAWA is building between T4 and TBIT so Delta wouldn't even have to bus) 
 

Who ever said AA had LAX "on lock down?"  All that many of us have said is that, at least for the time being, and into the foreseeable future, AA does have a structural advantage at LAX due to gates.  I don't really understand how that is debatable.  It is no different than how Delta has a structural advantage at LGA due to slots.  Again - not sure how it's debatable.  Now, could Delta gain access to more gates at the airport if/when they become available?  Of course.  But the point is that at this point Delta has no realistic, attractive prospects for doing that - any gates that would be available at this point would all be relatively inconvenient and less attractive to Delta's existing LAX operation - even more inconvenient than AA's already-sprawling operations.

For about two years, assuming no changes (ie AS picking up and moving to T2.). The four gates at T6 will come into play.
 
and as I said a possible Terminal 9, Terminal 0, North field changes and TBIT growth all factor in here.
 
In the short term Delta could go back to parking at the hangar and busing over to T5/6 
 

Go back and reread what I wrote.  I didn't say that Delta didn't have a "direct lease from LAWA" on T6 gates.  What I said was that it had "non-exclusive use" on those gates - it has been my understanding that Delta has preferential use of those T6 gates, but other airlines can use them.  Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

I do not know the exact terms of the lease because the rotunda gates at T6 are a bit murky. DL and AS basically share the rotunda.
 
However it was explained to me that if Delta wanted to lock down its heels it would have complete control over 68A/B 69A. Of course thats all preferential use is. First rights.  

 

[LDVAviation]

 
If Delta added a gate a T1 it would be the same as the box. That is my point. 
 
For a large part of American flights you get to ride bus. It would be no different if Delta were to add gate at TBIT or the north side. 
 
 
and really TBIT and T2 might take about as long to get to as going over to the box. 
 
 
(and of course if Delta adds gates a TBIT they can use that brand new bridge LAWA is building between T4 and TBIT so Delta wouldn't even have to bus) 
 
For about two years, assuming no changes (ie AS picking up and moving to T2.). The four gates at T6 will come into play.
 
and as I said a possible Terminal 9, Terminal 0, North field changes and TBIT growth all factor in here.
 
In the short term Delta could go back to parking at the hangar and busing over to T5/6 
 
I do not know the exact terms of the lease because the rotunda gates at T6 are a bit murky. DL and AS basically share the rotunda.
 
However it was explained to me that if Delta wanted to lock down its heels it would have complete control over 68A/B 69A. Of course thats all preferential use is. First rights.  

 
If Delta bussed passengers to T1, Delta would have to pay for the bus service itself.  All for one gate?  (AA's bus service is partially subsided by LAWA because AA moved the Eagle ops to accommodate LAWA's capital plans.)
 
If Delta started using gates at TBIT, it would have no gating priority.  Even for AA, the connector is convenient only because AA is getting gating priority, with almost all of its flight boarding at gates at or near the core. 
 
Delta would not get similar treatment.  It is a long walk to either end of TBIT West, especially if you are starting out in T5.
 
LAWA calculated the distance of the various bus routes.  Yes, the T4 to Eagle route was the longest.  But the T5 to T2 route would be longer.
 
AS has a lease on T6 until 2022.  It isn't going anywhere.
 
Why do you think AA will give up control of the four gates at T6?  (There is a lot more going on here than is apparent.  Suffice it to say in the near future LAWA was going to regain control of the gates.  This was not subject to renegotiation with United as you indicated.  At which point, one of the options was to retire the gates because LAWA needed the gate numbers elsewhere, e.g., MSC.  Putting AA there for the next couple of years is consistent with what LAWA eventually wants to do with the gates and AA's own growth plans.) 
 
There are NO plans for Terminal 9.  (Those were the plans of a previous regime.)  There are plans for a Terminal 0, next to Terminal 1.  The most likely beneficiary of that terminal is Southwest, not Delta.  
 
(By the way, in bankruptcy, Delta ceded the master leases to its hangars/toolshops to LAWA.  As a result, Delta does not have any leverage with respect to what happens on land occupied by its hangar complex.)
 
In the short term, Delta cannot go back to parking at its hangar.  That was only a temporary exemption.  With the NIMBY's snooping around as a result of the Ontario lawsuit, LAWA is likely to play things very close to the vest for a while.
 
Delta has "preferential" rights to 3 gates at T6.  Forget the numbers, but they are all at the end of the terminal.  Under the direction of LAWA, Delta currently shares one of the gates with AS.  Moreover, all the gates at T6 are common use and their "preferential" use is subject to renegotiation and reallocation.

 

[LDVAviation]

anyways, in the real world I have a plan on my computer from a LAWA study for Terminal 9. It would be an 8-10 gate terminal. Oddly enough guess who LAWA would have to make a deal with for terminal 9? (I'll give you a hint, it starts with D) 
Depending on what happens with TBIT and the runways on the north field this would likely be what happens. 
 
(spoiler, they would have to make a deal with Delta. Delta's GSE shop is right where the terminal would go. Also a part of that is Delta's lease on the wideboy bay at the western hangar and the run up hole and parking spots around it. Of course rumors are floating around that LAWA/Delta/United are going to be doing some dealing here soon too.)

 
Here's a spoiler for you.
 
That's not the real world. 
 
The conceptual plans for Terminal 9 date from the mid-90's.  The terminal was intended for United, back when United planned a major expansion at LAX.
 
But wait it gets worse because this is real.
 
There is NO deal to be done with Delta.
 
During bankruptcy, Delta ceded the master leases to the GSE shop and Western hangar.
 
I know I mentioned this above, but it is worth repeating because this portion of your post is complete BS.

 

[Kev3188]

In the short term, Delta cannot go back to parking at its hangar.  That was only a temporary exemption.  With the NIMBY's snooping around as a result of the Ontario lawsuit, LAWA is likely to play things very close to the vest for a while.

I'm not familiar with the ONT lawsuit. What did/does it entail?