279 A/C Limit Question

OP
O

Oliver Twist

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Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/3/2003 5:13:10 PM diogenes wrote:
[P]OT,[BR][BR]The company says, fleet we need an additional $14 mil a year, and CWA, $11 mil.[BR][BR]The additional costs we're bearing on medical coverage is about 10% of the total.[BR][BR]In view of the fact there is no additional givebacks in wages, pension, etc., and in view of the fact MDA/express language has been added, how do we reach our respective bogey numbers? Numbers, I might add, that the company says is important enough that they will liquidate if they don't get them.[BR][BR][STRONG]Oliver says: [/STRONG]I'm sorry but I dont follow this line. The thread was about aircraft and the belief that there will be more stations with mainline than many would have us believe. They will get their cuts I'm sure from my wallet. But that said, there are still too many airplanes to have wholesale station conversions to express.[BR][BR][BR]Will mainline remain in locations other than the big ten? Obviously so. But I find it intriguing that 141m has a spreadsheet, prior to their vote, outlining upcoming furloughs. If the damage to fleet/cs were so minimal, you'd think they'd get it out there.[BR][BR][STRONG]Oliver says: [/STRONG]The IAM is being it hard here, but it seems that if the company's holy grail here was R & D and the cleaners in non hub stations. Thats what they have been after since merger saw the IAM's numbers swell so fast. The closings have little to do with the aircraft numbers, they wanted them gone regardless I think. They want mechanics to fix airplanes only and cleaners in hubs only.[BR][BR][BR]We'll see what we'll see.[BR][BR][STRONG]Oliver says: Yes we will. I hope it's good for us all too.[/STRONG][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
 
OP
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Oliver Twist

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Aug 20, 2002
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Raleigh, NC
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[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/5/2003 12:20:20 PM RedOne wrote:
[P]Being from a small station, I feel I have the following decision to make...those in large cities are not faced with this same decision.[BR]1. Vote NO...look for another job, because MAY liquidate[BR]2. Vote YES..look for another job, because in a few months my station will become commuter station...then (IF they offer me a job) I can work 2 or more mainline daily flights plus comutters at commuter wage. (Will they start me off at the top of their pay scale...or at the bottom as a new-hire?) I don't think so. I ain't gonna work under this pressure/hours/mgr that I have to put up with/etc for the same thing that I can work somewhere else for. Oh, and by the way, Chip will continue to fly his mainline flight into my commuter station making his mainline salary while my fellow employees who decide to stay, get a major pay cut (should they decide to work for commuter) Wonder how many other stations are going commuter? YOURS? As Dio. has pointed out, company won't tell us at this point what stations they plan to convert into commuter stations. Wonder why they wont?[BR]Not decided yet on how I will vote. (No Chip...I ain't gonna just quit!) Leaning towards YES and then hoping for severance pay when the station is closed as a mainline sta(if they don't do away with severance pay later). I figure they will try to do away with it too...cause as many stations as I suspect will be converted to commuter stations will cause a hardship on them to pay us all severance pay. Howevcer: a NO vote could mean no severance pay.[BR]Either way I vote, I figure my career is short lived with US. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I understand your quandry and I can say without a doubt it suck's. There is no doubt in my mind that stations east of the Mississippi River that have fewer than 5 mainline flights per day are in trouble. I assume you're in one of them. Move or stay, unemployment or lower wages, insurance or none. All these questions have life changing results no doubt. I am sorry if you will be disrupted but I nor anyone else here can change that[BR][BR]I do however feel that with an agreement, the company will go on and the landing will be a bit softer rather than the crash of a chapt 7. Do I like the agreement? Of course not and my job search goes on every day. I just want to do it without the worry of being unemployed overnight.[BR][BR]As for Chip, while I don't always agree with him, he has the right to express himself, however, he has said nothing in this thread so your comments towards Chip have no meaning here. The issue was aircraft and aircraft alone. [BR][BR]I still believe that more than just a few cities will remaind mainline, they hove to to deal with 279 airplanes. It's simply numbers and rumors or wild guesses have no place in that equation.
 
OP
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Oliver Twist

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Aug 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]the TA states 2 mainline flt may be flown into express stations..and be handled by express..so it would seem your assumption that they would have to close the mainline station and open as express is warranted..the question is with all the rjs scheduled to be flying in the future,( i believe the number being thrown around is more than jets we will have), where will they be flying to. any station that goes rj is express....before they were grounded there were a few cities that had the f-100 for jet service...easy rj routes...you have posed an excellent question and if someone truly had an answer or at least some possible senarios, [STRONG]it might put more employees at ease at least having an idea what the outcome might be. seems to be a big sticking point with both fleet and c/s[BR][BR][/STRONG][BR] [/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I think that is a good question and perhaps Chris Chiames can pop over from his side of the board and answer it for us.[/P]
 

sdavis29

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Nov 13, 2002
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[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/5/2003 9:15:55 PM MrAeroMan wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/5/2003 12:20:20 PM RedOne wrote: [BR][BR]Being from a small station, I feel I have the following decision to make...those in large cities are not faced with this same decision.[BR]1. Vote NO...look for another job, because MAY liquidate[BR]2. Vote YES..look for another job, because in a few months my station will become commuter station...then (IF they offer me a job) I can work 2 or more mainline daily flights plus comutters at commuter wage. (Will they start me off at the top of their pay scale...or at the bottom as a new-hire?) I don't think so. I ain't gonna work under this pressure/hours/mgr that I have to put up with/etc for the same thing that I can work somewhere else for. Oh, and by the way, Chip will continue to fly his mainline flight into my commuter station making his mainline salary while my fellow employees who decide to stay, get a major pay cut (should they decide to work for commuter) Wonder how many other stations are going commuter? YOURS? As Dio. has pointed out, company won't tell us at this point what stations they plan to convert into commuter stations. Wonder why they wont?[BR]Not decided yet on how I will vote. (No Chip...I ain't gonna just quit!) Leaning towards YES and then hoping for severance pay when the station is closed as a mainline sta(if they don't do away with severance pay later). I figure they will try to do away with it too...cause as many stations as I suspect will be converted to commuter stations will cause a hardship on them to pay us all severance pay. Howevcer: a NO vote could mean no severance pay.[BR]Either way I vote, I figure my career is short lived with US. [BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Excuse my ignorance here but what does the language state in the TA regarding when a station goes from mainline to express? It was explained to me by a relative that the only way express would handle mainline would be if they closed the station to mainline and then reopened it at a later time with mainline flights. It seems to me some stations are indeed in trouble but not sure it is something the majority of the stations should be concerned about at this time. No one knows what the future holds as I'm sure you're all very aware of. I've read some posts where the posters have stated once the station goes down to two flights it converts to express and I'm not sure that is correct. Can anyone clear that up for me?[BR]Thanks and good luck to you all.[BR]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]the TA states 2 mainline flt may be flown into express stations..and be handled by express..so it would seem your assumption that they would have to close the mainline station and open as express is warranted..the question is with all the rjs scheduled to be flying in the future,( i believe the number being thrown around is more than jets we will have), where will they be flying to. any station that goes rj is express....before they were grounded there were a few cities that had the f-100 for jet service...easy rj routes...you have posed an excellent question and if someone truly had an answer or at least some possible senarios, it might put more employees at ease at least having an idea what the outcome might be. seems to be a big sticking point with both fleet and c/s[BR][BR][BR]
 

MrAeroMan

Veteran
Dec 29, 2002
895
2
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 12:20:20 PM RedOne wrote:

Being from a small station, I feel I have the following decision to make...those in large cities are not faced with this same decision.
1. Vote NO...look for another job, because MAY liquidate
2. Vote YES..look for another job, because in a few months my station will become commuter station...then (IF they offer me a job) I can work 2 or more mainline daily flights plus comutters at commuter wage. (Will they start me off at the top of their pay scale...or at the bottom as a new-hire?) I don't think so. I ain't gonna work under this pressure/hours/mgr that I have to put up with/etc for the same thing that I can work somewhere else for. Oh, and by the way, Chip will continue to fly his mainline flight into my commuter station making his mainline salary while my fellow employees who decide to stay, get a major pay cut (should they decide to work for commuter) Wonder how many other stations are going commuter? YOURS? As Dio. has pointed out, company won't tell us at this point what stations they plan to convert into commuter stations. Wonder why they wont?
Not decided yet on how I will vote. (No Chip...I ain't gonna just quit!) Leaning towards YES and then hoping for severance pay when the station is closed as a mainline sta(if they don't do away with severance pay later). I figure they will try to do away with it too...cause as many stations as I suspect will be converted to commuter stations will cause a hardship on them to pay us all severance pay. Howevcer: a NO vote could mean no severance pay.
Either way I vote, I figure my career is short lived with US.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Excuse my ignorance here but what does the language state in the TA regarding when a station goes from mainline to express? It was explained to me by a relative that the only way express would handle mainline would be if they closed the station to mainline and then reopened it at a later time with mainline flights. It seems to me some stations are indeed in trouble but not sure it is something the majority of the stations should be concerned about at this time. No one knows what the future holds as I'm sure you're all very aware of. I've read some posts where the posters have stated once the station goes down to two flights it converts to express and I'm not sure that is correct. Can anyone clear that up for me?
Thanks and good luck to you all.
 

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
2,515
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 9:56:06 PM Oliver Twist wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------

[BLOCKQUOTE]
the TA states 2 mainline flt may be flown into express stations..and be handled by express..so it would seem your assumption that they would have to close the mainline station and open as express is warranted..the question is with all the rjs scheduled to be flying in the future,( i believe the number being thrown around is more than jets we will have), where will they be flying to. any station that goes rj is express....before they were grounded there were a few cities that had the f-100 for jet service...easy rj routes...you have posed an excellent question and if someone truly had an answer or at least some possible senarios, [STRONG]it might put more employees at ease at least having an idea what the outcome might be. seems to be a big sticking point with both fleet and c/s

[/STRONG]
[/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]


I think that is a good question and perhaps Chris Chiames can pop over from his side of the board and answer it for us.[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]
------------------------------------------------------------

Well said, sdavis29 and Mr. Twist.

For me, that is what it boils down to.
 

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
2,515
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/5/2003 8:42:16 PM Oliver Twist wrote:



[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/3/2003 5:13:10 PM diogenes wrote:


OT,

The company says, fleet we need an additional $14 mil a year, and CWA, $11 mil.

The additional costs we're bearing on medical coverage is about 10% of the total.

In view of the fact there is no additional givebacks in wages, pension, etc., and in view of the fact MDA/express language has been added, how do we reach our respective bogey numbers? Numbers, I might add, that the company says is important enough that they will liquidate if they don't get them.

[STRONG]Oliver says: [/STRONG]I'm sorry but I dont follow this line. The thread was about aircraft and the belief that there will be more stations with mainline than many would have us believe. They will get their cuts I'm sure from my wallet. But that said, there are still too many airplanes to have wholesale station conversions to express.


Will mainline remain in locations other than the big ten? Obviously so. But I find it intriguing that 141m has a spreadsheet, prior to their vote, outlining upcoming furloughs. If the damage to fleet/cs were so minimal, you'd think they'd get it out there.

[STRONG]Oliver says: [/STRONG]The IAM is being it hard here, but it seems that if the company's holy grail here was R & D and the cleaners in non hub stations. Thats what they have been after since merger saw the IAM's numbers swell so fast. The closings have little to do with the aircraft numbers, they wanted them gone regardless I think. They want mechanics to fix airplanes only and cleaners in hubs only.


We'll see what we'll see.

[STRONG]Oliver says: Yes we will. I hope it's good for us all too.[/STRONG][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]


[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]
------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Mr. Twist,

What I'm saying can be reduced to this.

Fleet has to pony up $14 mil annually under Concessions, part II. CWA $11 mil.

How are going to achieve those savings? The new language does not lower mainline pay rates or achieve any appreciable savings outside of increased medical contributions on our part.

Let's look at the mech side of the equation (I'm getting the following figures from iam141m.org). Their bogey number is $45 mil. 500 employees are being furloughed. Assuming the total compensation U pays for each mech and related employee is $55,000 (at the last informational meeting, District 141 advised us this number for agents was $50,000) 500 x 55,000 is $27,500,000 of that $45 mil bogey.

How can we calculate a similiar equation for fleet and CWA? Perhaps that answer will be forthcoming this week.
 

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