5 Year Pilots
- Thread starter Walmartgreeter
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luv2fly said:
Whoa big fella, I simply said it was news to me! I have not heard it and while it does not sound likely, I cannot confirm nor deny, however, it would probably have made it through the grapevine if it were true! AFAIK, I have not seen anything official from the company!
Friends??🙂
Busdrvr said:
I wouldn't toot my horn too loudly about UAL outsourcing it's work to a US-based MRO facility. It sure didn't help Valujet when it hooked up with Sabertech, another US MRO whiched hailed from Florida. BTW, please tell me the last airline mishap in the US that was wholly or partially responsible due to faulty work performed by a non-US outsourced maintenance facility? I can think of more than a few that were the result of work performed by US MRO and in-house maintenance shops over the last 30 years.
Lastly, stop making excuses for UAL's decision to outsource it's overhaul work because of what other airlines may or may not be doing. It makes your criticism of jetBlue very disingenuous and hypocritical to say the least.
Busdriver does not have a point, that is other than trying to make others look bad, I suppose that does something for his ego.
The problems at UAL is due to everybody else, not any internal failure! Summer of hell, choke the golden goose, make everyone else give up the pension, avolar, shuttle. Yep, none of that rings a bell.
The problems at UAL is due to everybody else, not any internal failure! Summer of hell, choke the golden goose, make everyone else give up the pension, avolar, shuttle. Yep, none of that rings a bell.
Daedalus said:
Actually, if you do a little research, you'll see that ST was employing spanish speaking workers who couldn't even read the manuals. sounds a lot like Taco. As to a "history" of shoddy U.S. based MRO work, I don't think adequate history is available to make an informed decision vs El Salvador. After all, only recently were non-union airlines with management who would send everything to the lowest bidder, in vogue.
As to being forced to match these practices, YGTBSM. Are you saying the incumbant airlines don't have to match price and "productivity" But hey, outsource it all right? After all, each and every job lost to Taco is more profit sharing for you right? then again, each and every fool willing to fly the 170 for 50K will also pad your @ss. What you didn't count on is the more qualified flyers at the majors, the ones who got the job you couldn't, appear to be willing to take the pay hit to save the company. They are forced to 'match' your cost. Yet they have a global network. So now we see Blu drifting to losses and getting bad press. The next couple years will be interesting indeed.
"What you didn't count on is the more qualified flyers at the majors, the ones who got the job you couldn't, appear to be willing to take the pay hit to save the company."
That is really what it comes down, isn't it, you foolishly think because it says UAL on your paycheck, that you for some odd reason have a leg up on the rest of the world. Well, wakeup call for you, your shat stinks as bad as the rest of us, but keep on with that attitude of entitlement, it seems to work so well for you. A shame deregulation came along, otherwise PanAm would still be around and you would not be flying all those int'l routes. Most of the PAA guys could probably fly circles around you and me, but such is not their luck, corporate hubris destroyed them as surely as it could UAL.
You are stuck in the mindset that UAL is the end all, well surprise, it isn't. Plenty of companies out there to replace you. Sure, for a short bit of time there might be a few hiccups, but not for long and it would be business as usual. The rest of us would still find the way across the Atlantic and Pacific without the illustrious UAL.
Interestingly, the attitude you display is similar to the one we got from UAL management when the ATSB turned them down, twice. It was the:" We are United, don't you realize how important we are"! Well, they didn't and the rest of the world really don't give a hoot whether UAL is here tomorrow.
The way I see it, as long as it benefits you personally, it's fine, but now that you are not in the drivers seat it is unfair. Well, cry me a river!
I have tried to find common ground with you before, but I realize its is a lost cause, all you can offer is ridicule and blame, so I guess you have to reap what you have sown.
D8
That is really what it comes down, isn't it, you foolishly think because it says UAL on your paycheck, that you for some odd reason have a leg up on the rest of the world. Well, wakeup call for you, your shat stinks as bad as the rest of us, but keep on with that attitude of entitlement, it seems to work so well for you. A shame deregulation came along, otherwise PanAm would still be around and you would not be flying all those int'l routes. Most of the PAA guys could probably fly circles around you and me, but such is not their luck, corporate hubris destroyed them as surely as it could UAL.
You are stuck in the mindset that UAL is the end all, well surprise, it isn't. Plenty of companies out there to replace you. Sure, for a short bit of time there might be a few hiccups, but not for long and it would be business as usual. The rest of us would still find the way across the Atlantic and Pacific without the illustrious UAL.
Interestingly, the attitude you display is similar to the one we got from UAL management when the ATSB turned them down, twice. It was the:" We are United, don't you realize how important we are"! Well, they didn't and the rest of the world really don't give a hoot whether UAL is here tomorrow.
The way I see it, as long as it benefits you personally, it's fine, but now that you are not in the drivers seat it is unfair. Well, cry me a river!
I have tried to find common ground with you before, but I realize its is a lost cause, all you can offer is ridicule and blame, so I guess you have to reap what you have sown.
D8
Busdrvr said:
Mr. Busdrvr,
I don't know where to begin in responding to your prejudiced diatribe, but I will say that you've proven yourself to be one lousy amateur airline analyst. The problem for you is that you think you're the cat's meow when it comes to knowing how things really are in this business. The result is that you come off as a fool far more often than not, but at least you provide the rest of us some comic relief. Just do yourself a big favor and keep your current day job, even if your students have to put up with your sorry a$$ attitude over in Boystown.
Now with that preface out of the way, let me inform you that one I am not a jetBlue pilot (although I'd love to be on their team). I am a furloughed pilot from a major legacy carrier who has returned to the military to pick up the pieces of a broken career and move on the better things...sound familiar? However, unlike you who refuses to wake up and recognize that the world has changed in the airline business, I have decided I better adapt to the changes or make myself forever irrelevant as a professional pilot.
Here's a newsflash for you busdrvr: Nobody's buying the proverbial horse buggy whip anymore when it comes to how this industry and our profession used to do business. I'm sorry your feelings have been offended and the promises of a glorious future for yourself as a big-time airline captain for a Untied have turned out to be a big lie, BUT GET OVER IT! While you sit on your perch and squawk about how unfair and immoral this all is, the world will continue to ignore your pathetic rants and figure out how to make the best of a changing business and profession. So you don't like the fact that jetBlue is "outsourcing" it's heavy maintenance to a Central American MRO subsidiary of TACA (not TACO you bigoted dolt!).
Now you advised me to do a "little research" well I have done my fair share and it appears that you could take your own advice in order to improve your credibility on this subject. If you had read the entire WSJ article that this thread is based on then you would have learned that this particular MRO facility is more than adequately qualified to perform its services to client airlines in a safe manner. To quote an excerpt from the WSJ article:
"Aeroman is the maintenance subsidiary of Grupo TACA, a consortium of of Central American carriers based in San Salvaddor." Aeroman was founded in 1983 and started performing third-party work in the 1990s. It has 1,200 workers. Mechanics come from the local technical colleges and the military, submit to lie detector, drug and alcohol tests and spend five to six months doing classroom work, and then an equal amount of time as apprentices."
"The individual mechanics have licenses from the Salvadoran aviation authority. They aren't required to have an FAA license, but Aeroman pays for airfare and hotels for employees who choose to go to Miami to take the FAA exam, which is only given in English. They get a raise if they pass, and Aeroman says 30% to 40% of its technicians have these licenses."
"The Aeroman hangar was inspected 12 times last year by the FAA's Miami office, four times in 2003 and twice in 2002, the FAA says. Mr. Ballough (FAA's Director of Flight Standards) says the facility also is scrutinized by other FAA inspectors assigned to jetBlue, the airline's own quality assurance people, and the local aviation authority. Tom Anderson, jetBlue's senior vice president of technical operations and maintenance, says the facility also is examined by European regulators because it services European planes. "One could argue that the level of regulatory oversight they're getting is vastly superior to what they'd get on U.S. soil," he says."
The best part is that jetblue receives this level of service where the local labor rates are in the neighborhood of $20-$26/hour versus $50/hour back here in the U.S. The average annual per capita income in El Salvador is just over $2,200/year. The Aeroman technicians make on average $300 to $1,000/month, well above the average Salvadoran citizen. In addition, workers receive private healthcare insurance benefits, pensions, and free airline travel. This makes turnover negligible and adds to improved worker productivity and experience.
Love them or hate them jetBlue has once again figured out how to capitalize on low-costs without compromising on quality or productivity. This is why this airline is a leader in this industry and will continue to outpace airlines like Untied and all other legacy carriers.
So go ahead busdrvr and respond with your unique insight and tell us all how this still does not rise to a level worthy of your adoration, let alone your willingness to accept the fact that sometimes you're wrong in your arrogant (and now bigoted) hyperbole.
markkus757
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He's almost always wrong. Notice the "keeping up with Jones'" plane that he attaches his name with. Again, his mentality is why they are losing the battle. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that the majors need to be more open minded to compete in the international marketplace.
CaptianBoomer
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Busboy:
There has been significant thread creep here, don't you think?
While you pine away for the "good old days", the industry is leaving you behind.
For the record, there are no $ 50,000 EMB-190 pilots, other than the new hire F/O's. The company is looking for a 9-12 month upgrade on the jet when it comes on line. First year Captains will make $ 64K at a minimum and can make up to $ 84K for 80 hours/month. How many first year Captains are there at other carriers, let alone a great company that is growing and leading the industry.
First year A320 pilots can make $60K. That is twice what I made my first year at the big "legacy" carrier.
So, before you start whipping stones all over the glass neighborhood, maybe you should think before you speak.
B6 is by no means perfect. We make plenty of mistakes. But you see, we try harder to do the right thing. BTW, our CEO went to BOS this morning to help get the operation back on track and was on the ramp in 20 degree weather helping the ground crewmembers load the aircraft. If you are jealous, you should be.
Boomer
There has been significant thread creep here, don't you think?
While you pine away for the "good old days", the industry is leaving you behind.
For the record, there are no $ 50,000 EMB-190 pilots, other than the new hire F/O's. The company is looking for a 9-12 month upgrade on the jet when it comes on line. First year Captains will make $ 64K at a minimum and can make up to $ 84K for 80 hours/month. How many first year Captains are there at other carriers, let alone a great company that is growing and leading the industry.
First year A320 pilots can make $60K. That is twice what I made my first year at the big "legacy" carrier.
So, before you start whipping stones all over the glass neighborhood, maybe you should think before you speak.
B6 is by no means perfect. We make plenty of mistakes. But you see, we try harder to do the right thing. BTW, our CEO went to BOS this morning to help get the operation back on track and was on the ramp in 20 degree weather helping the ground crewmembers load the aircraft. If you are jealous, you should be.
Boomer
D8,
I came over hear after you went on the UAL board protesting the "freefall" of wages there, even though they are significantly higher than the ones you signed up for, and I'd argue are STILL above Blues. (more to follow)
Daedalus,
apparently you have me confused with someone else. I've never been to boystown, and if there ever was a critism of me it was that I didn't "party" enough. Precious time with my family trumped it (which is why I find no value in "overtime" pay), and I didn't want to have to ever explain why a student I washed out had pictures of me hanging out with them in a strip club over the border. Wouldn't be prudent.
Bigot? not likely. I've got hispanic family members. I view "Taco" the same way as saying somebody rides a "rice burner". But believe what you'd like. Moving on? I'm not the one back on active duty just so I could fly. Heck, I'm not even "back on active duty". I'm about two years past "moving on". That why I have the perspective I do.
"Love them or hate them jetBlue has once again figured out how to capitalize on low-costs without compromising on quality or productivity. This is why this airline is a leader in this industry and will continue to outpace airlines like Untied and all other legacy carriers"
Let's consider this statement. First, I would not have expected Blue to do all it's MX in house upon recieve tail #1. There are plenty of shops in the U.S. I would expect that they would have utilized on of the U.S. shops considering the roll New England politicians played in geting them started. Post 911 those same politicians have a large constituancy of out of work Mech's. Instead Blue chooses to employee mechs making $300-1000 a month in El Salvador. Just curious, what are the whistleblower laws down there. They tout the "cost advantage", what are they willing to do to keep this good deal, profitable enterprise south of the border? Are they subject to TSA checks as U.S. based aerospace?
But let's put another spin on it. What would you say if next month Blu announced they were going to go head to head with AMR in S.A. out of Mia. The only rub is they plan for all the crews to be based in S.A. because they will fly for $500 a month in the right seat and they'll make a fortune by local standards of $2000 a month as Capt. After all, some of the guys were even trained by the U.S. Air Force, so they must be just as good. And the others? They'll all meet the rigorous standards of the U.S. comm ticket and ATP for Capts. Will that be O.K.? What if the cost savings are such that they decide to do the same for ALL blu flights? Fly them up for two weeks at a time. "Guest workers" Will you consider THAT "innovative"? Or are you just willing to sell out other peoples jobs?
Congrats on getting back in the military. If you stay til retirement, the financial rewards will likely be much better than trying to fly for whoever is hiring. Hopefully you'll take advantage of the military's T.A. program somewhere other than EmbryRidiculous.
I came over hear after you went on the UAL board protesting the "freefall" of wages there, even though they are significantly higher than the ones you signed up for, and I'd argue are STILL above Blues. (more to follow)
Daedalus,
apparently you have me confused with someone else. I've never been to boystown, and if there ever was a critism of me it was that I didn't "party" enough. Precious time with my family trumped it (which is why I find no value in "overtime" pay), and I didn't want to have to ever explain why a student I washed out had pictures of me hanging out with them in a strip club over the border. Wouldn't be prudent.
Bigot? not likely. I've got hispanic family members. I view "Taco" the same way as saying somebody rides a "rice burner". But believe what you'd like. Moving on? I'm not the one back on active duty just so I could fly. Heck, I'm not even "back on active duty". I'm about two years past "moving on". That why I have the perspective I do.
"Love them or hate them jetBlue has once again figured out how to capitalize on low-costs without compromising on quality or productivity. This is why this airline is a leader in this industry and will continue to outpace airlines like Untied and all other legacy carriers"
Let's consider this statement. First, I would not have expected Blue to do all it's MX in house upon recieve tail #1. There are plenty of shops in the U.S. I would expect that they would have utilized on of the U.S. shops considering the roll New England politicians played in geting them started. Post 911 those same politicians have a large constituancy of out of work Mech's. Instead Blue chooses to employee mechs making $300-1000 a month in El Salvador. Just curious, what are the whistleblower laws down there. They tout the "cost advantage", what are they willing to do to keep this good deal, profitable enterprise south of the border? Are they subject to TSA checks as U.S. based aerospace?
But let's put another spin on it. What would you say if next month Blu announced they were going to go head to head with AMR in S.A. out of Mia. The only rub is they plan for all the crews to be based in S.A. because they will fly for $500 a month in the right seat and they'll make a fortune by local standards of $2000 a month as Capt. After all, some of the guys were even trained by the U.S. Air Force, so they must be just as good. And the others? They'll all meet the rigorous standards of the U.S. comm ticket and ATP for Capts. Will that be O.K.? What if the cost savings are such that they decide to do the same for ALL blu flights? Fly them up for two weeks at a time. "Guest workers" Will you consider THAT "innovative"? Or are you just willing to sell out other peoples jobs?
Congrats on getting back in the military. If you stay til retirement, the financial rewards will likely be much better than trying to fly for whoever is hiring. Hopefully you'll take advantage of the military's T.A. program somewhere other than EmbryRidiculous.
"BTW, our CEO went to BOS this morning to help get the operation back on track and was on the ramp in 20 degree weather helping the ground crewmembers load the aircraft. If you are jealous, you should be."
So let me get this straight. you have the leader of a personality cult who is also a self described sufferer of ADD so bad that he can't resist the urge to touch other women without permission. He makes several hundred thou a year to run the company. the stock would arguably tank if something happens to him, adversely affecting each and every employee and stakeholder, and you put him on a snow covered busy ramp (one of the most dangerous workplaces) in Boston, one of the most congested fields in the U.S. What's next? Tightrope walking without a net? BASE jumping? Racing motorcycles without a helmet? I'm supposed to be jealous of irresponsibility by your CEO? 🙄
So let me get this straight. you have the leader of a personality cult who is also a self described sufferer of ADD so bad that he can't resist the urge to touch other women without permission. He makes several hundred thou a year to run the company. the stock would arguably tank if something happens to him, adversely affecting each and every employee and stakeholder, and you put him on a snow covered busy ramp (one of the most dangerous workplaces) in Boston, one of the most congested fields in the U.S. What's next? Tightrope walking without a net? BASE jumping? Racing motorcycles without a helmet? I'm supposed to be jealous of irresponsibility by your CEO? 🙄
