5TH week vacation coming back?

[WorldTraveler]

Guess all of you cant comprehend.

No where did I criticize DL for laying off, it was to prove to WT, that DL is just like every other airline.

So both of you can go back under your respective bridges.

So glad both of you can infer things from my posts that arent there.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

if DL is just like every other airline and every other airline, even with unions, can't stop job losses, then what is the value of a union?

And you also falsely said that DL laid off workers when it downsized CVG and MEM which is categorically false. DL offered every one of its FT employees the opportunity to relocate and only if they chose not to do so were they offered a severance package.

If DL has laid off workers, then there should be documentation with state DOLs to show it. Please provide it if it exists.

On the UA thread, the discussion is that there was job protection provided for union members, or at least the majority of them, but not necessarily in the same city, if I am reading it correctly - and I'm sure you will correct me if I am wrong. DL has done the very same thing... providing job security but which might involve a move.

Indeed, DL in that respect is doing no worse than any other airline; please let me know if you can find an airline that provides job guarantees in your specific position in a specific city. If that exists, then DL is uncompetitive from a labor standpoint because they didn't do that - unless I missed it. But no other airline has done that either.

 

[700UW]

The value of a union is to have a process and gaurantees.

What happened in Leadership 7.5?

Every concession that was ever taken at US besides the CBA abrogation, was negotiated, did DL negotiate with any of their non-union employees?

Were there section 1113 C negotiations for the non-contract employees?

Nope, DL could do whatever they wanted and they did.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, and every airline union at the US has been forced in BK or with the threat of it to gut the contracts.

The "guarantees" all evaporated just like that.

And, yes, 7.5 was one of the worst moments for DL in labor relations... but it was 20 years ago and very few DL people are motivated by it one way or the other.

You are more interested in keeping it alive that anyone else.

As I have also noted, DL provided protections to move to other areas of the company, often in the same city, that other airlines didn't offer because they have competing CBAs between workers in each area of the company.

And the simple fact remains that DL has added more work FOR DL employees than any other US airline since BK...

and that is apparent every time a traffic report comes out.

The arrival of the 717s and 739s will shift even more work to DL employees from regional carriers... furthering the same pattern which DL mgmt. said would happen on the day the merger was announced - and they have lived completely up to that promise.

And we've gone thru it before but the data overwhelmingly shows that DL employees did as well as or better than their peers at non-union airlines in BK... 1113 or not.

 

[700UW]

You do realize with a unionized airline with a cba, there are specific language governing "bumping", see those pesky unions workers have the right to move to keep their job, depending on the cba language.

You dont know what goes on, see in a large station like CLT when I got displaced or abolished I dont have to leave CLT as my SENIORITY gave me the right to go to another bid area, in the same station.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL doesn't allow one employee to bump another out of an occupied spot. That is just the way it is.

If DL employees don't believe it is fair, they could certainly vote in a union.. but they haven't.

I found this little gem in the UA discussion from Tim Nelson who has a whole lot more credibility regarding what goes on than you do.

Josh,
Jetblue uses their own employees in many of there own stations but some work is contracted out. I believe most of their reservations is at home agents, unlike at united where the majority of res work is in manilla, tokyo, etc which our current union leaders have endorsed in ta1 and previous contracts.
Kev has posted that Dl has 43 ramp stations and 17 cargo centers.
Most managements seek to get rid of union. Thus delta keeps things for employees to keep the union out. United management negotiates to get the union bosses to support contracting out rights.
Under socopats scenerio, the Ta1 would have made delta management look like saviors after united management would have been able to trim 20,000 union jobs over a 3 year period.

 

[Dalmd88#2]

Back to my original question; how many employees are actually getting a 5th week of vacation back?

Does anyone actually know if anyone exists that can meet the requirement?

In Tech Ops there are quite a few that are pre 1988 DOH. Most would not be affected by ajusted DOE from 7.5 or any other layoffs I would suspect. Some are relocated due to those layoffs.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

So it would most likely apply to PMDL employees?

The majority of PMNW employees with 25 years would have some "bad time" unless they are scabs or managers (or both).

 

[737823]

The value of a union is to have a process and gaurantees.

What happened in Leadership 7.5?

Every concession that was ever taken at US besides the CBA abrogation, was negotiated, did DL negotiate with any of their non-union employees?

Were there section 1113 C negotiations for the non-contract employees?

Nope, DL could do whatever they wanted and they did.

Then why did the IAM allow UA outsource MHT and MIA without a fight? You blast DL for not having mainline ramp at MIA, but its ok for UA not to? DL has mainline ramp at FLL and PBI as Kev posted, and as you yourself said no airline has ramp employees at every city.

Josh

 

[700UW]

You will have to ask someone who works for UA, so if you can't debate the topic at hand then don't post.

I didn't blast DL for not having ramp in MIA, stop posting lies.

 

[Kev3188]

DL has mainline ramp at FLL and PBI as Kev posted...

No I didn't. We don't have M/L ramp at PBI. FLL yes. I don't mind you quoting me, but it at least needs to be accurate.

 

[700UW]

Now why would he be that?

He always posts misinformation and lies and when corrected, doesnt admit it and still posts it.

 

[737823]

Give it up, my point was DL staffs other stations, for whatever reason they find it uneconomical to staff MIA. I've flown DL from MIA in the past six months, everything was fine.

Josh

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Give it up, my point was...
Josh

My point was?

You have deliberately and repeatedly posted false information and misquotes.

People here need to remember that when reading any of your posts.

An apology and retraction may buy some of your credibility back.

I wil not hold my breath waiting on that.

 

[737823]

I posted that in the Tim Nelson thread on the UA forum. At any rate I will apologize here for misquoting Kev, it was not my intention to post misinformation. As you know there is a lot being discussed here and I got mixed up. Kev has remarked on multiple occasions about the lack of DL MIA m/l ramp, understand why he finds a relatively large station that is wholly mainline flights to be outsourced disappointing. But again, DL has 43 m/l ramps, including nearby FLL, more than AA, UA, or US.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I wil not hold my breath waiting on that.

good thing he apologized quickly so you wouldn't pass out.

Apologies go both ways, you know.

As for DL ramp operations in S. Florida, remember that DL was much larger at PBI and FLL pre-merger than they were in MIA. Now, DL boards almost 3000 passengers/day from MIA and far more than that in FLL. MIA is now larger than PBI for DL but there has been a lot of variability in DL's size in S. Florida - precisely why they are reluctant to hire FT employees and then risk a downturn or strategic change that might require reducing or moving that workforce.

There are a number of markets in which DL has grown over the past 5 years that are now fairly large cities including cities like RDU which Kev has mentioned in the past and which I agree should see DL rampers.

But there are still unknowns in the industry over the next few years with the AA/US merger and the fall of the Wright Amendment. The arrival of the 717s help increase efficiencies which make adding mainline staff more likely.

I'm hopeful that DL will add more rampers to more rampers in the years to come just as is occurring with mainline staff in other areas of the company.