5TH week vacation coming back?

[737823]

Kev,
Just want to ask (and believe I know your feelings) but do you and others throughout the DL system credit NWA IAM for DL having as many ramp stations operating today as they do? There was overlap from the merger but NW brought several DL stations in house and to date the company has maintained these. I know some predicted 18-24 months after IAM decertification they'd outsource all (save hubs and a few others) but that clearly isn't the case.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

while Kev responds, I will acknowledge that NW and the IAM came up with the best program to protect as many cities for ramp personnel among US network carriers. There is no debating that.

The only caveat is that DL made the decision during 7.5 to keep its personnel in many more above wing locations than NW and has maintained that since.

Instead of fighting about who provided a better solution, I would hope that there is agreement that the combined DL and NW policies have resulted in a far larger number of DL airport personnel in more locations than at other Airlines. That is precisely what a merger should do - provide the best of both.

I think we will see in the coming years that DL will move even furthr ahead of its peers in terms of its own staffing in airports around the US.....

Hopefully Kev will jump back in with his perspective....

 

[Kev3188]

Kev,
Just want to ask (and believe I know your feelings) but do you and others throughout the DL system credit NWA IAM for DL having as many ramp stations operating today as they do?

Yes.

We brought 40 to the party. Remember, NW wanted only MSP/DTW to be M/L staffed, with the rest being a Red Tail version of DGS. DL brought 12 or 13, only one of which could be considered a "small" station by flight volume. The question you have to ask is; would DL have opened these places otherwise? The answer is most likely no...

Have they opened any new points post-merger? NO.

There was overlap from the mergerbut NW brought several DL stations in house and to date the company has maintained these. I know some predicted 18-24 months after IAM decertification they'd outsource all (save hubs and a few others) but that clearly isn't the case.

...Yet...

 

[737823]

Thanks. Probably given the momentum in the ramp campaign things will stay tight for now. On the topic of MIA at what point did DL last have m/l ramp? Pre ch 11? Pre L 7.5? They even had the LHR flight and interline considerable volumes of cargo. Also they do HAV charters on a regular basis too.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

On the topic of MIA at what point did DL last have m/l ramp? Pre ch 11? Pre L 7.5?

No clue...

They even had the LHR flight and interline considerable volumes of cargo. Also they do HAV charters on a regular basis too.

Just more items on an already long list of reasons to staff the place...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't believe DL has had mainline ramp at MIA since 7.5. As previously noted, DL's staffing in its largest Florida cities is based on its strategy from the 90s which involved focusing on MCO, FLL, TPA, and PBI.

Just more items on an already long list of reasons to staff the place...

As I noted elsewhere on this forum, among the network carriers, DL has the highest percentage of its flying done by mainline aircraft. The best way to get more DL people working in all areas of the company is to fly DL flight numbers with DL aircraft. With the arrival of the 717s and 739s, DL will be shifting more and more flying to DL mainline from regional carriers.

DL mainline flights are more efficient and also provide a customer service benefit that can help move share in highly competitive markets.

 

[Kev3188]

As I noted elsewhere on this forum, among the network carriers, DL has the highest percentage of its flying done by mainline aircraft. The best way to get more DL people working in all areas of the company is to fly DL flight numbers with DL aircraft.

Great. MIA is all M/L now...

 

[737823]

Personally Id love to see MIA-SLC (or FLL for that matter) resume, really would be great in the winter. There is one off flying MIA/FLL-SLC on 12/1 in addition to other extra section flights following Thanksgiving.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Great. MIA is all M/L now...

and I couldn't agree with you more that it should be one of the first, if not the first cities to have DL mainline BW staff.

Personally Id love to see MIA-SLC (or FLL for that matter) resume, really would be great in the winter. There is one off flying MIA/FLL-SLC on 12/1 in addition to other extra section flights following Thanksgiving.

Josh

Yes, but I'd like to see a pair or two of MIA-LAX flights added. There are some cities in the Midwest and east that now have LAX service but don't have SLC service. LAX is becoming more and more important to DL's network plans.

MIA-BOS, BOS-LAX, MIA-GRU and MEX should also be high on the list.

 

[737823]

DL currently operates MIA-LAX daily 73H (EB redeye WB AM departure). But seriously it's an insignificant presence given AA's ownership of that market and presence in the two key cities.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

agree...that's why MIA-LAX needs to be at least a couple daily. Remember that AA carries a huge amount of traffic from LAX-Latin America via MIA so DL doesn't have to put in enough capacity to keep up with that.... they do need enough of a presence to be significant in the market. IN a longhaul domestic market, 2 is just barely.... 3 can be an acceptable presence if you have the right contracts.

BTW, I just saw that LAX-BOS on DL is coming back 2 per day in the spring.

looks like DL is going up to 4X/day on SEA-LAS... another opportunity to grow in SEA and bump up against AS.

 

[Kev3188]

and I couldn't agree with you more that it should be one of the first, if not the first cities to have DL mainline BW staff.

Delightful, but that won't send Eulen America packing...

Nor will employee surveys...

Nor will employees "whining" to mgmt...

Etc.

 

[737823]

Delightful, but that won't send Eulen America packing...

Nor will employee surveys...

Nor will employees "whining" to mgmt...

Etc.

They are hiring plenty of people for AA. Job fairs and billboards all over the Miami area, losing DL wouldn't exactly send them packing at MIA.

Josh

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I posted that in the Tim Nelson thread on the UA forum. At any rate I will apologize here for misquoting Kev, it was not my intention to post misinformation. As you know there is a lot being discussed here and I got mixed up. Kev has remarked on multiple occasions about the lack of DL MIA m/l ramp, understand why he finds a relatively large station that is wholly mainline flights to be outsourced disappointing. But again, DL has 43 m/l ramps, including nearby FLL, more than AA, UA, or US.

Josh

Kudos for your acknowledgment Josh.

I was wrong once. But then I found out I was incorrect in my assessment. 😉

 

[WorldTraveler]

wow... an invasion of politeness on airline forums. Who knew?

Delightful, but that won't send Eulen America packing...

Nor will employee surveys...

Nor will employees "whining" to mgmt...

Etc.

Can I presume that MSY is a contract ramp station for DL?

In my perusal of schedules, DL at MIA and MSY are very close to the same size both in terms of the number of flights and total seats; MIA does have larger aircraft for DL but the comparison is fairly close.

DL's presence at MSY has been fairly stable for years... they are growing somewhat but there haven't been any great peaks or valleys there for DL.

BTW, if MSY is a contract ramp station, how does DL coordinate between the DL reinforcements that are brought in for special events which MSY has on occasion (but so do cities like AGS which becomes a very busy mainline station for a few days around the Master's)?

At any rate, I whole heartedly commend NW and the IAM for the agreements they reached - I presume in BK - regarding retaining the medium sized cities that NW wanted to outsource. The IAM achieved something which DL had decided with 7.5 that they did not want to maintain. AA and UA are now going closer to DL's original path which makes what NW and the IAM agreed to all the more notable.

That said, DL has maintained the stations that NW brought to the merger even if they have given no indications that they intend to expand the number of DL cities, including ones like MIA or MSY that have fairly strong mainline operations.

I will continue to hope that DL will expand the mainline ramp to more cities but I also can't help but look at what DL's competitors are doing... I don't know how the economics really compare between a mainline staffed city that includes RRs compared to an outsourced station but I really can't imagine it is a huge difference.

I still believe that overall DL's moves to add more mainline aircraft and reduce the percentage of regional carrier seats in the DL system will result in positive changes for DL employees, if only in hubs where DL employees work mainline aircraft but contractors work RJs.

You have noted the "whine" comment several times so I will apologize again (I thought I did once but I'll do it again to make sure I leave no stone unturned.) I put the word in " " because I didn't intend for it to be taken literally... perhaps to be seen more as "register a complaint" but the connation was not intended to be negative, esp. since I noted that DL employees have gained additional vacation time because they have pushed on the vacation issue.

In the spirit of cooperation, I will admit that internet chat as well as other written communications don't always yield the best words. I hope my choice hasn't offended you.

peace to you and all here.