A Bad Experiment

[Ken MacTiernan]

Deregulation was suppose to benefit the flying public. It did for a while but unfortunately the negative side of human nature quickly reared it's ughly head and airlines started to pop up all over the place. In a mad dash to make a buck management people, who did not know anything about running an airline, started cutting corners where ever possible to increase their profits. Their blind lust for every cent found and pocketed has lead to the "Follow me off the cliff" mentality. The worse example of this mentality is the outsourcing of aircraft maintenance.

But even with the industry cutting their own throats airlines had the saving grace of filing for bankruptcy protection. When will the public finally realize that GREED will never allow deregulation to work and demand that the airlines be re-regulated?

I say that the US Government should re-regulate the airlines. They should stipulate that ALL aircraft maintenance is done in house. The government should also sell fuel to the airlines at a fixed rate. With the US Government's power they can buy fuel in such large amounts that the government could earn money from the sale of fuel. That way fuel will cost everyone the same and quality and safety will be a deciding factor when the public buys a ticket. It worked before it will work again.

Stop the madness... re-regulate the airlines. If an airline fails then they should CEASE operations.

 

[Oldmetal]

When will people and the government learn from past history. Let's see, deregulate the savings and loan companies, the energy companies, the airlines, the mortgage companies, broadcasting companies, communication companies, banks, etc. What has happened in each of the afore mentioned cases? GREED! Who gets hurt? The general public. WE, the tax payer, consumer, end up paying the consequence.

I totally agree with Mr. MacTiernan. When aircraft maintenance is farmed out, WE pay the consequence. When a company cuts corners, everyone pays. The idea of the U.S. Government buying and selling the fuel is an excellent idea. The individual airlines will not have to compete based on fuel costs. Maybe then they can compete on SERVICE.

I don't necessarily like government regulation but when it comes to the safety of the general public, it is required to prevent GREED from rearing it's ugly head and opening the door to disaster.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I am curious as to the person voting against re-regulating the airlines. What is your reasoning/arguments against doing this? Thanks for your input.

 

[mikemolzahn]

The ones that are voting against re-regulating are the ones who are profitting from mechanics barely making ends meet while they sit in luxurious offices, take the yaht out for the weekend and drive a different new car every month because the ash tray is full.

Oh was I up on the soap box again...... oops....

Mike Molzahn
A&P Mechanic
Spartan College Grad.
AMT Society Member
AMTA Member

"Airline CEO's without maintainers are your next Wal-Mart Greeter"

 

[kuro_kuma]

Crandall's interview on MSNBC re this:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=717886142&play=1


Sorry if it's posted somewhere already, but I didn't see it.

 

[ual777fan]

Something needs to be done, that's for damn sure. I'm not sure if total re-regulation is the answer, but there needs to be some additional regulation of the marketplace from safety to pricing. I say its time for the CAB to make a comeback in some form.

 

[title1 for life]

Something needs to be done, that's for damn sure. I'm not sure if total re-regulation is the answer, but there needs to be some additional regulation of the marketplace from safety to pricing. I say its time for the CAB to make a comeback in some form.

Ken
I wasn't around for regulation so I really can't vote not knowing what it was like. However I do believe that there are major flaws in a system
that allows chapter 11 as it is now. The share holders are punished along with the vendors. And most importantly to me the contracts are gutted. All the while the bankruptcy judges allow the failing management to reward themselves large bonuses .

You do have my vote for on shoring maintenance. Here at American we are like flees riding a dinosaurs back. Hoping it survives until the tide changes again. Good hearing you are at DFW. Title 1 for life "The artist formerly known as JohnnyRB211" :huh:

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

But even with the industry cutting their own throats airlines had the saving grace of filing for bankruptcy protection.

If the BK code had any teeth then UA, NW, DL and US would be already gone.

 

[tech2101]

I am curious as to the person voting against re-regulating the airlines. What is your reasoning/arguments against doing this? Thanks for your input.

I don't think re-regulation is the answer.

I also do not think mergers will solve the problems of the carriers. Look here at some of the reasons.

The answer is/was, to stop the bankruptcy train at the station, though it may be a little late for that now. The laws dealing with bankruptcy have now been changed slightly, but the weak carriers still can get relief at the expense of the employees and creditors. The bankruptcies of the legacy carriers led to downward pricing pressure on the solvent airlines. That, in combination with the start-ups (who got new aircraft with little or no money), squarely placed the surviving airline employees in the mess they are in now.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I don't think re-regulation is the answer.

I also do not think mergers will solve the problems of the carriers. Look here at some of the reasons.

The answer is/was, to stop the bankruptcy train at the station, though it may be a little late for that now. The laws dealing with bankruptcy have now been changed slightly, but the weak carriers still can get relief at the expense of the employees and creditors. The bankruptcies of the legacy carriers led to downward pricing pressure on the solvent airlines. That, in combination with the start-ups (who got new aircraft with little or no money), squarely placed the surviving airline employees in the mess they are in now.

Re-regulation would work because it would level the playing field for all airlines. The government would set prices for tickets. When contracts came up for ratification if an airline needed to raise prices they would go to the "CAB" and argue why they need to rise. Just like they did in the past.

Re-regulation would work because the "I can bleed longer than you can" analogy of current underpricing of tickets would not be an option for inept management. Just look at Aloha Airlines. Hawaiian and Aloha co-exhisted for years then comes along a third airline who lowers tickets so much THEY can't make a profit but do so so they can get "market share" and in turn bleed the competition dry/dead. This is wrong.

Re-regulation can work because it worked before. Greed and ineptness have run it's course at the expense of the public, employees and sharholders. With the fading away of some of aviation's legacy carriers, ie. TWA, Eastern, PanAm, and now AmericaWest/USAir = NWA/Delta = and possibly CO & UAL there will be even less airlines that need regulating. By re-regulating the airlines going into BK would not be an option. That airline would have to reorganize outside of court. If they can not then they fail. I do not mean to be cold but there needs to be a stop to this insanity.

My idea of airlines buying fuel from the government is valid. I suggest that a privatized government organization could be created just as the US Post Office and the THRIFT Savings Plan for federal employees' retirement was created. This new organization would be able to purchase fuel in such large quantities it would give airlines no excuse for crying about fuel prices since EVERYONE would pay the same. This new organization would be accountable to Congress.

The profits generated buy this new organization could then be used for rebuilding the infrastructure by providing better training for pilots and AMTs, dispatchers, new technology and for commercial Space. There could be an "Aviation Univeristy" created within this new organization that sells fuel to airlines.

I value your opinion and encourage others to post their concerns/ideas. If you "vote" please explain your point of view. This thread should not be filled with negative attacks but rather positive exchanges of intelligent ways to better the airline industry. Because we all know that that would never happen if left to the airlines themselves.

 

[WeAAsles]

Check this one out from Bob Crandall on Lou Dobbs.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/...ref=videosearch

 

[Bob Owens]

Re-regulation would work because it would level the playing field for all airlines. The government would set prices for tickets. When contracts came up for ratification if an airline needed to raise prices they would go to the "CAB" and argue why they need to rise. Just like they did in the past.

While I would agree that deregulation has been a failure I dont see "reregulation" as an option at this point. Instead they should allow the industry to take its natural course and consolidate first.

If things still dont settle down after consolidation and the government decides they want to make air transport mass transit then they should model it on the NYC MTA. Make it all one, just like they did in New York City with the multitude of surface and rail sytsems that operated independantly prior to the formation of the MTA. The public got predictable reliable transportation and the workers were no longer in a race to the bottom.

My idea of airlines buying fuel from the government is valid. I suggest that a privatized government organization could be created just as the US Post Office and the THRIFT Savings Plan for federal employees' retirement was created. This new organization would be able to purchase fuel in such large quantities it would give airlines no excuse for crying about fuel prices since EVERYONE would pay the same. This new organization would be accountable to Congress.

I think the government should push hard to develop a new fuel source for aircraft-perhaps liquid hydrogen. It would stop aircraft from dumping greenhouse gasses high up in the atmosphere, instead leaving only water, it also would lessen the demand for petroleum, making our nation more secure. A tax on petroleum would fund the program which would eventually be expanded to provide hydrogen based fuels for surface vehicles.

I value your opinion and encourage others to post their concerns/ideas. If you "vote" please explain your point of view. This thread should not be filled with negative attacks but rather positive exchanges of intelligent ways to better the airline industry. Because we all know that that would never happen if left to the airlines themselves.

I certainly would not want to see the government try to reregulate the industry at this time. More than likely workers would end up bearing the brunt of it and the stockholders would be the only ones who walk away happy.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I am curious as to the person voting against re-regulating the airlines. What is your reasoning/arguments against doing this? Thanks for your input.

While it is odd that I can fly 500 miles for about the same price or cheaper than driving (gas + tolls), government regulation is not the answer. For airlines to thrive there are several things needed. One is to not allow airlines to use bankruptcy courts (some multiple times) to survive and lower the bar for every other carrier. Another thing that is needed is for the government to stay totally out (i.e. how did Jetblue get all those slots at JFK?). Ofcourse the most important thing is to get rid of suckers willing to invest thier money in airlines.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

They need to get rid of the Chapter 11 bankruptcy code and make it only Chapter 7 for the airlines.
Just look at United and Northworst. United was in Chapter 11 for what,almost three years! United should been broken up and the pieces sold off to other better managed carriers. Northworst went into bankruptcy for only one reason-to clobber their employees. Same with Lorenzo at Continental.
Chapter 7 only for the airlines is the answer.

 

[X-U]

If the BK code had any teeth then UA, NW, DL and US would be already gone.

No they wouldn't, because they wouldn't have had to take the hits caused by previous BKs, i.e. CO, EA, PA, TW.