A Possibitity: Aa To Combine With Ae?

[buhbye]

It seems that AMR could figure out a way to combine American Airlines and American Eagle into one airline. Putting AA under Eagle, to get their "low cost" airline.
They would get rid of the big salaries paid to labor, labor unions at AA and reduce cost and debt.

Maybe AA will file bankruptcy? AA guarentee's ALL of Eagles debt, so it is very possible this could be a possibility.

Maybe that is why Eagle Flight Attendants are NOW allowed to ride jumpseat on American Airlines?

Then the International segment could be run by say.....Virgin Air when the foreign ownership laws change?

AMR still gets a cut and still is the majority owner, but with out the labor etc.

We might be given a choice:

Go to the new low cost carrier Eagle or go with Virgin for the International segment.

Poor AA flight attendants since apfa is non afl-cio and puts everyone at the bottom, would be put at the bottom of Eagles seniority list.

Maybe that is why the apfa officers are so chummy with the AFA, heck THB wrote the current AFA Eagle contract?
They would get appointments in AFA.


These are just thoughts. Could it happen? How would it be handled?

Any ideas?

 

[Winglet]

The only way that could be done is if AMR files bankruptsy and gets a judge to abrogate labor agreements. I suppose that could happen, but would likely kill the whole company as I doubt FOs at AA would work for $35k in NYC, Boston, DC, or Chicago, no retirement and lousy other benefits. Neither would the other employee groups. AE's costs with RJs is very high . . . like twice that of narrowbody aircraft. They provide feed and cash flow, but isn't a profit center.

The opposite is much more likely . . . . decrease in compensation at AA with AE being absorbed by AA. Presently it's a mess for sure, but a mess that AMR wants to continue due to being able to play the two labor groups against each other.

 

[FWAAA]

AE's costs with RJs is very high . . . like twice that of narrowbody aircraft. They provide feed and cash flow, but isn't a profit center.

[post="252866"][/post]​

True, but as someone else pointed out recently, at least it's high cost at cost and not cost plus 8% (like Republic or other profitable outsourced companies charge).

A while back, everyone was certain that Eagle would be sold. Don't hear it too much lately.

 

[buhbye]

True, but as someone else pointed out recently, at least it's high cost at cost and not cost plus 8% (like Republic or other profitable outsourced companies charge).

A while back, everyone was certain that Eagle would be sold. Don't hear it too much lately.

[post="252868"][/post]​

No they keep hearing "big things" are on the way.

Good things?

 

[Mach85ER]

From the AA pilot point of view, no chance.

Not boasting, but with the kind of pay slash that would go with your theory, I'd just toss the "jet keys" on the gate counter and start a new career. If the plane owners and debt holders could accept their assets sitting idle in the desert or unused at the airport for a year then maybe.

With AA pilot pay as it is, the law of dimishing returns starts to come into play. There isn't much more to cut in pay, especially the FO's, before they figure out that 20 days a month on the road isn't worth it.

If the level of pay degradation continues for another 10 years, I think you'll start to see some effects in the majors like you're seeing in the regionals where some very low time pilots getting jobs because of the pay. I know I'll probably be done with flying if that happens and won't get on an airplane unless I absolutely have to, nor will I live under a flight path.

 

[local 12 proud]

From the AA pilot point of view, no chance.

Not boasting, but with the kind of pay slash that would go with your theory, I'd just toss the "jet keys" on the gate counter and start a new career. If the plane owners and debt holders could accept their assets sitting idle in the desert or unused at the airport for a year then maybe.

With AA pilot pay as it is, the law of dimishing returns starts to come into play. There isn't much more to cut in pay, especially the FO's, before they figure out that 20 days a month on the road isn't worth it.

If the level of pay degradation continues for another 10 years, I think you'll start to see some effects in the majors like you're seeing in the regionals where some very low time pilots getting jobs because of the pay. I know I'll probably be done with flying if that happens and won't get on an airplane unless I absolutely have to, nor will I live under a flight path.

[post="253461"][/post]​

I agree 100% and same goes for us professional AMT's who have watched as our pay and benefits have been slashed to a point that sticking our necks out, working holidays, graveyards, inclement weather, dangerous chemicals etc...will no longer be worth the hardships we all endure. I can go hang drywall and make more money without all the downfalls i just stated above. I chose aviation for the Love of It, but it is taking a toll!

 

[buhbye]

I agree 100% and same goes for us professional AMT's who have watched as our pay and benefits have been slashed to a point that sticking our necks out, working holidays, graveyards, inclement weather, dangerous chemicals etc...will no longer be worth the hardships we all endure. I can go hang drywall and make more money without all the downfalls i just stated above. I chose aviation for the Love of It, but it is taking a toll!

[post="253464"][/post]​

Yes, it is hard to imagine. It seems that they are trying to clean house as it is.

But, the fact remains; is it possible? How could it be done?

 

[jetdryvr]

I agree this is unlikely to ever happen.. Eagle until the last quarter was the only profitable unit at AA BTW. AA does not support AE financially nearly as much as most AA'ers think. We do pay dearly for things we do get from AA and at most places above market rates.


More labor cuts at either group is not the answer either, AMR needs to learn to operate the airline profitably and start charging a fuel surcharge along with raise fares to a more realistic level.

 

[Connected1]

From what's being done with M&E, AMR Investments, and the switch to a fee per departure arrangement with AE, I think that it is thousands of times more likely that AMR would spin off or sell AE. Cash is king right now.

 

[Buck]

From what's being done with M&E, AMR Investments, and the switch to a fee per departure arrangement with AE, I think that it is thousands of times more likely that AMR would spin off or sell AE. Cash is king right now.

[post="253904"][/post]​

Just a note: M&E has begun some work on AE products, third party?

 

[Connected1]

Just a note: M&E has begun some work on AE products, third party?

[post="253914"][/post]​

To be able to successfully spin off AE or M&E (or just TUL), AMR would have to demonstrate that there is true third party interest in the product. M&E working on AE products would be too incestuous for outside investors but it could be the beginning of a proof-of-concept that TUL could handle large volumes of RJs. Regional carriers seem to make the most sense for potential customers considering the size of the local market there. Mainline carriers probably don't want to ferry aircraft in/out of TUL.

 

[will fix for food]

Just a note: M&E has begun some work on AE products, third party?

[post="253914"][/post]​

Good.

 

[Bob Owens]

To be able to successfully spin off AE or M&E (or just TUL), AMR would have to demonstrate that there is true third party interest in the product. M&E working on AE products would be too incestuous for outside investors but it could be the beginning of a proof-of-concept that TUL could handle large volumes of RJs. Regional carriers seem to make the most sense for potential customers considering the size of the local market there. Mainline carriers probably don't want to ferry aircraft in/out of TUL.

[post="253918"][/post]​

Yea they would ferry it to Singapore I guess.

 

[AirwAr]

.... Putting AA under Eagle, to get their "low cost" airline.

[post="252698"][/post]​

This is not completely out in left field. There is a precedent being set as we speak. "At US Airways, the parasites are devouring the host"

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05075/472061.stm

AA would just have to find a way to hold on to all the debt as it spins-off AE. Once separated, AA could enter bankruptcy to unload much of its debt and lower wages even more. With lower wages, AE would agree to become debtor-in-possession of AA.

 

[buhbye]

This is not completely out in left field. There is a precedent being set as we speak. "At US Airways, the parasites are devouring the host"

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05075/472061.stm

AA would just have to find a way to hold on to all the debt as it spins-off AE. Once separated, AA could enter bankruptcy to unload much of its debt and lower wages even more. With lower wages, AE would agree to become debtor-in-possession of AA.

[post="256026"][/post]​

yes, smart analogy