Aa Mechanic Pay Vs Cpi

[Calvin]

And the saga continues. Out of nowhere strikes the blue ink weilding Owens and his perpetual crying, the inaccurate predictions of Stewart, and the "anyone who uses an alias is a coward" rantings of Ken. Let's all have a great year!

 

[Rusty]

Never the issues always the diversion right Calvin??? How about answering the question, why has the twu advocated concessions for the last twenty years with the exception of the short lived AMFA contract we received in 2002???

 

[Calvin]

Advocated concessions? Really? You say tomato, I say tomatoe. The TWU has, and still, advocates retaining employment for its members. We have our differences, no doubt, but I do believe we have a common goal, that being finding a way to keep our profession inhouse. AMFA is not doing this, you know that to be true.

I can make graphs, I can make a graph so pretty you'll want to slap Stewart. Not necessary, AMFA's history is big and bold. You have NWA, UAL, and now the undesputable leader in outsourcing, Alaskan Air.

 

[Rusty]

Advocated concessions? Really? You say tomato, I say tomatoe. The TWU has, and still, advocates retaining employment for its members. We have our differences, no doubt, but I do believe we have a common goal, that being finding a way to keep our profession inhouse. AMFA is not doing this, you know that to be true.

I can make graphs, I can make a graph so pretty you'll want to slap Stewart. Not necessary, AMFA's history is big and bold. You have NWA, UAL, and now the undesputable leader in outsourcing, Alaskan Air.

[post="183972"][/post]​

I would have to Disagree gree on your synopsis there Calvin but, I take it by your answer you would rather make minimum wage and still have a job rather than hold the line on pay and benefits. Have you read the read the scope of your twu constitution lately.

By the way the only language that an AMFA membership has changed as far a scope goes that I am aware of is at NWA. There the company had to use the force-majure to lay anyone off. When we get AMFA in here the first thing we must do is fix our scope language!!!

You know Calvin that chart does not include the in-house out-sourcing to the OSM classification which is 20% of our work not to mention the 41% the DOT shows we out source. If you add the two together we at AA out-source over 60% of our work.

 

[Calvin]

Even after our concessions we make far more than minimum wage, are you suggesting we would have been better off in BK court?

Watching AMFA work at airlines it represents AMFA will not fix a thing if it gets in here, I see AMFA advocating extending our agreement until the airline reaches a point of profitability. Then AMFA may grovel for pittance, but so far AMFA has not gone forward within our industry. They did what so far? Bring back 75 members from the results of FM1 and FM2? And how many of them qare actually back working?

All the items in our AA/TWU contract you mention were #1 voted upon by the same mebers you now hqave signing cards, #2 you received item for item, meaning OSM for seniority protection , and so on. Now you cry? Why not cry to the voters prior to voting?

You have to keep in mind that the organizers, such as Stewart and Owens, give half truths and put a spin on items that would make a top jealous. I'll do my own research and make up my own mind.

 

[Rusty]

Even after our concessions we make far more than minimum wage, are you suggesting we would have been better off in BK court?

Watching AMFA work at airlines it represents AMFA will not fix a thing if it gets in here, I see AMFA advocating extending our agreement until the airline reaches a point of profitability. Then AMFA may grovel for pittance, but so far AMFA has not gone forward within our industry. They did what so far? Bring back 75 members from the results of FM1 and FM2? And how many of them qare actually back working?

All the items in our AA/TWU contract you mention were #1 voted upon by the same mebers you now hqave signing cards, #2 you received item for item, meaning OSM for seniority protection , and so on. Now you cry? Why not cry to the voters prior to voting?

You have to keep in mind that the organizers, such as Stewart and Owens, give half truths and put a spin on items that would make a top jealous. I'll do my own research and make up my own mind.

[post="184531"][/post]​

Calvin we have not completed out, our trade union. It will take a lot of time and effort but, I am confident we will succeed. Once the majority of our Craft and Class is in one union stroking together in the same direction and we have purged ourselves of the corrupt afl-cio business unions, there will be a process of gathering and aligning the troops to defend and elevate our trade. Nothing good comes cheap and easy, the sacrifices being made to defend our trade are heroic but, in the end the worth far exceeds the sacrifices. The truth is many of us will have done this for our sons, daughters, and those who will come in after us. I can think of no better accomplishment than to retire from our trade leaving it in stronger and better shape than it was when we came in.

Take a look at the Carpenters Union (half way down on the left side) and their attitude toward trade unionism and maybe you will be able to see the truth, actually I doubt you can as you are blinded by self preservation, but it's worth a try.

UBC thinks the Afl-Cio is worthless

 

[Bob Owens]

Calvin we have not completed out, our trade union. It will take a lot of time and effort but, I am confident we will succeed. Once the majority of our Craft and Class is in one union stroking together in the same direction and we have purged ourselves of the corrupt afl-cio business unions, there will be a process of gathering and aligning the troops to defend and elevate our trade. Nothing good comes cheap and easy, the sacrifices being made to defend our trade are heroic but, in the end the worth far exceeds the sacrifices. The truth is many of us will have done this for our sons, daughters, and those who will come in after us. I can think of no better accomplishment than to retire from our trade leaving it in stronger and better shape than it was when we came in.

Take a look at the Carpenters Union (half way down on the left side) and their attitude toward trade unionism and maybe you will be able to see the truth, actually I doubt you can as you are blinded by self preservation, but it's worth a try.

UBC thinks the Afl-Cio is worthless

[post="184834"][/post]​

While I would not agree with the opinion that its "worthless" I do agree that the benifits of being in the AFL-CIO are not such that its worth staying with a company/business union like the TWU due to their AFL-CIO affiliation.

The concept behind the AFL-CIO and the possibilities of such an organization are both sound, however its usefulness is dependant upon many things. The rise of self serving unaccountable adhereants to the concept of business unionism within many of the affilited unions has severely comprimised the effectiveness of the AFL-CIO. This has led to scandals such as the insurance deal a while back where top union officials were reaping huge illegal profits.

Unlike many union members, the leaders of many affiliated AFL-CIO unions can simply walk out the door with their membership if they dont think that the organization is serving their self interests and then tell the members whatever they feel like as for the reason they withdrew from it.

PATCO certainly found out that the concept of the AFL-CIO and the reality of it where very different. The implication is that the AFL-CIO allows unions to stand together as one big giant union. PATCO found that was not the case when Reagan fired them and all the other unions went about business as usual, some like ALPA even encouraged their members to go above an beyond in order to bust PATCO. So much for AFL-CIO unity.

As airline workers we have suffered a twenty year decline in compensation despite the fact that over this same period of time the industry has grown and productivity and profits have risen. The vast majority of the airline workers were in AFL-CIO affiliated unions yet none of these unions have ever stood together to defend the wages and working conditions of the industry's workers. Instead they have hid behind the "no raid" clause which forbids one union going to another unions members and telling them how their present union has screwed them. They cant recruit members from another union, but their is no provision that prevents them from undercutting each other in order to try and put the other unions company out of business. There is nothing preventing affiliated unions from engaging in a race to the bottom. If the members should try and revolt against their present unions who have put them in such a race the AFL-CIO will use what powers it does have to crush the revolt. In other words, in this example the AFL-CIO acts as a support mechanism for corrupt leaders, not union members.

As far as airline members are concerned, AFL-CIO affiliation, due to the unions they belong to, is actually a big factor contributing to the conditions which have led to the 20 year decline they have endured. Once again, this decline coincided with overall industry growth and increased productivity. Normally industry growth and increased productivity lead to increased worker compensation, even in non-union enviornments.

There has been struggle within the organization for change, unfortunately many unions share a structure similar to the TWU where power is handed down from within with little direct membership influence. Many have become just as corrupt as the TWU and they in turn corrupt the AFL-CIO.

 

[DECISION 2007]

While I would not agree with the opinion that its "worthless" I do agree that the benifits of being in the AFL-CIO are not such that its worth staying with a company/business union like the TWU due to their AFL-CIO affiliation.

The concept behind the AFL-CIO and the possibilities of such an organization are both sound, however its usefulness is dependant upon many things. The rise of self serving unaccountable adhereants to the concept of business unionism within many of the affilited unions has severely comprimised the effectiveness of the AFL-CIO. This has led to scandals such as the insurance deal a while back where top union officials were reaping huge illegal profits.

Unlike many union members, the leaders of many affiliated AFL-CIO unions can simply walk out the door with their membership if they dont think that the organization is serving their self interests and then tell the members whatever they feel like as for the reason they withdrew from it.

PATCO certainly found out that the concept of the AFL-CIO and the reality of it where very different. The implication is that the AFL-CIO allows unions to stand together as one big giant union. PATCO found that was not the case when Reagan fired them and all the other unions went about business as usual, some like ALPA even encouraged their members to go above an beyond in order to bust PATCO. So much for AFL-CIO unity.

As airline workers we have suffered a twenty year decline in compensation despite the fact that over this same period of time the industry has grown and productivity and profits have risen. The vast majority of the airline workers were in AFL-CIO affiliated unions yet none of these unions have ever stood together to defend the wages and working conditions of the industry's workers. Instead they have hid behind the "no raid" clause which forbids one union going to another unions members and telling them how their present union has screwed them. They cant recruit members from another union, but their is no provision that prevents them from undercutting each other in order to try and put the other unions company out of business. There is nothing preventing affiliated unions from engaging in a race to the bottom. If the members should try and revolt against their present unions who have put them in such a race the AFL-CIO will use what powers it does have to crush the revolt. In other words, in this example the AFL-CIO acts as a support mechanism for corrupt leaders, not union members.

As far as airline members are concerned, AFL-CIO affiliation, due to the unions they belong to, is actually a big factor contributing to the conditions which have led to the 20 year decline they have endured. Once again, this decline coincided with overall industry growth and increased productivity. Normally industry growth and increased productivity lead to increased worker compensation, even in non-union enviornments.

There has been struggle within the organization for change, unfortunately many unions share a structure similar to the TWU where power is handed down from within with little direct membership influence. Many have become just as corrupt as the TWU and they in turn corrupt the AFL-CIO.

[post="185039"][/post]​

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....oh damn....I was reading here....HAHAHAHA...tell us some more uncle Booby.

 

[Bob Owens]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....oh damn....I was reading here....HAHAHAHA...tell us some more uncle Booby.

[post="185277"][/post]​

Apparently you are one of those 15 minute attention spanned members that TWU supporters have written about!

 

[Nightwatch]

Hell Bob...what's up? Don't you get to speak to anyone all day and then once you think someone has the time to proof your novels you let 'em rip? 15 minute attention span wouldn't get ya through your first bout of tears....HAHAHA!

 

[Bob Owens]

Still no comment on twenty years of declining wages thanks to the TWU!

 

[DECISION 2007]

Still no comments on amfa's ineptness? amfa's history is growing, the truth is in the pudding.

 

[Bob Owens]

Still no comments on amfa's ineptness? amfa's history is growing, the truth is in the pudding.

[post="189715"][/post]​

AMFAs ineptness? Well if you look at the graph you will see what we call "the AMFA spike". A brief period where thanks to AMFA wages were restored, unfortunately the TWU put us right back on the same trajectory. This graph is just one example of the TWUs long term "ineptitude.

 

[Nightwatch]

Your graph was made by an amfa supporter based upon what? Look at the news Booby, amfa is a joke. amfa may rep more airlines, but they also have a higher furlough per capita, why?, because they have real-estate lawyers attempting to intimidate real businessmen. Guess what Booby, it's not working.

Ever fight for a winning cause?

 

[Bob Owens]

Your graph was made by an amfa supporter based upon what?


Based upon figures given to me by the TWU and the US Government. Do you want them?

Look at the news Booby, amfa is a joke. amfa may rep more airlines, but they also have a higher furlough per capita, why?, because they have real-estate lawyers attempting to intimidate real businessmen.


Businessmen? So thats who you think should run unions? Maybe business unions, a close kin to company unions but real unions, both Industrial or craft unions should be run by unionists not businessmen, or bus drivers who think they are businessmen.

Guess what Booby, it's not working.

I think that the graph makes it perfectly clear that the TWU method is not working, and thats a reflection of a 20 year period, not 2 years.

Ever fight for a winning cause?

Is that the only thing that matters? You will only fight if you know you will win? How about fighting because "Its the right thing to do"?I'm sure your wife and kids are real proud to know what a coward you are.

[post="189826"][/post]​