Aa Mechanic Pay Vs Cpi

[Nightwatch]

Your graph was made by an amfa supporter based upon what?


Based upon figures given to me by the TWU and the US Government. Do you want them? yes

Look at the news Booby, amfa is a joke. amfa may rep more airlines, but they also have a higher furlough per capita, why?, because they have real-estate lawyers attempting to intimidate real businessmen.


Businessmen? So thats who you think should run unions? Maybe business unions, a close kin to company unions but real unions, both Industrial or craft unions should be run by unionists not businessmen, or bus drivers who think they are businessmen.
did I say they should run unions Booby? you did, because you think and act like a company clone.

Guess what Booby, it's not working.

I think that the graph makes it perfectly clear that the TWU method is not working, and thats a reflection of a 20 year period, not 2 years.
amfa has surpassed the TWU in just 2 years, more outsourcing and furloughs, and you have to love that contract extension, what a joke.
Ever fight for a winning cause?

Is that the only thing that matters? You will only fight if you know you will win? How about fighting because "Its the right thing to do"?I'm sure your wife and kids are real proud to know what a coward you are.

My wife and kids ? Just what do your wife and kids know of your stupidity ? To lose $800/mo because you couldn't resist the urge to type...that spells IDIOT...do they call you that to your face or just after you leave the room? Do you make your wife proof read your rantings? Poor girl.

You amfa slugs are real big on this coward name...is there some hidden reason?

 

[Bob Owens]

Your graph was made by an amfa supporter based upon what?
Based upon figures given to me by the TWU and the US Government. Do you want them?

yes

Here they are;
Data for graph on mechanics wages
Year Base MAX Shift License Line Benefits Total CPI Adjusted Difference

1978 10.83 0.58 1 0.1 12.51 12.51 0
1979 11.26 0.58 1 0.1 12.94 13.3 14.17 -1.17
1980 12.53 0.58 1 0.1 14.21 12.5 15.94 -1.73
1981 13.6 0.58 1 0.1 15.28 8.9 17.36 -2.08
1982 15.79 0.58 1 0.1 17.47 3.8 18.02 -0.55
1983 16.73 0.58 1 0.1 18.41 3.8 18.7 -0.29
1984 17.89 0.58 1 0.1 19.57 4.3 19.5 0.07
1985 17.89 0.58 1 0.1 19.57 4.6 20.4 -0.83
1986 17.89 0.58 1 0.1 19.57 4.2 21.26 -1.69
1987 17.89 0.58 1 0.1 19.57 2.5 21.79 -2.22
1988 18.78 0.58 1 0.1 20.46 6 23.1 -2.64
1989 19.58 0.58 2 0.1 22.26 4.5 24.14 -1.88
1990 20.58 0.58 2 0.1 23.26 6.2 25.64 -2.38
1991 20.58 0.58 2 0.1 23.26 3.5 26.54 -3.28
1992 20.58 0.58 2 0.1 23.26 3.6 27.49 -4.23
1993 21.4 0.58 2 0.1 24.08 2.4 28.15 -4.07
1994 22.25 0.58 2 0.1 24.93 2.1 28.74 -3.81
1995 22.25 0.58 2.25 0.1 25.18 3 29.6 -4.42
1996 22.25 0.58 2.25 0.1 25.18 2.9 30.46 -5.28
1997 22.25 0.58 2.25 0.1 25.18 1.8 31.01 -5.83
1998 22.93 0.58 2.25 0.1 25.86 1.6 31.51 -5.65
1999 22.93 0.58 2.25 0.1 25.86 2.7 32.36 -6.5
2000 23.61 0.58 2.25 0.1 26.54 3.4 33.46 -6.92
2001 23.61 0.58 2.25 0.1 26.54 1.6 33.39 -6.85
2002 28.85 1.08 4.3 0.55 34.78 3 34.39 0.39
2003 29.72 1.08 4.5 0.55 35.85 3 35.42 0.43
2004 30.61 1.08 5 0.55 37.24 3 36.48 0.76
2005 25.26 0.53 5 0.55 -4.19 27.15 3 37.54 -10.39
2006 25.64 0.53 5 0.55 -4.19 27.53 3 38.66 -11.13
2007 26.02 0.53 5 0.55 -4.19 27.91 3 39.82 -11.91
2008 26.41 0.53 5 0.55 -4.19 28.3 3 41.01 -12.71
2009 26.8 0.53 5 0.55 -4.19 28.69 3 42.24 -13.55

The -4.19 figure is the value of lost vacation and Holiday pay.



Look at the news Booby, amfa is a joke. amfa may rep more airlines, but they also have a higher furlough per capita, why?, because they have real-estate lawyers attempting to intimidate real businessmen.

AMFA represented mechanics make more than we do. In fact yesterday as we were making $30/hr working Columbus day they were making up $90/hr.


Businessmen? So thats who you think should run unions? Maybe business unions, a close kin to company unions but real unions, both Industrial or craft unions should be run by unionists not businessmen, or bus drivers who think they are businessmen.
did I say they should run unions Booby?


You implied it.

you did, because you think and act like a company clone.

Company clone? Isnt that what you are? A management wannabee that urges acceptance of every concession the company desires?

Guess what Booby, it's not working.

I think that the graph makes it perfectly clear that the TWU method is not working, and thats a reflection of a 20 year period, not 2 years.

amfa has surpassed the TWU in just 2 years, more outsourcing and furloughs,

Wrong again. In fact AA still spends more on outsourcing than ANY other carrier.


and you have to love that contract extension, what a joke.

No concessions and they will be making $400/week more than we will by 2008. Glad you think thats funny. I dont.


Ever fight for a winning cause?

Is that the only thing that matters? You will only fight if you know you will win? How about fighting because "Its the right thing to do"?I'm sure your wife and kids are real proud to know what a coward you are.

My wife and kids ?
Do you have any?
Just what do your wife and kids know of your stupidity ? To lose $800/mo because you couldn't resist the urge to type...that spells IDIOT...do they call you that to your face or just after you leave the room?

My family supports the fact that I stand upon principle, not just a few extra dollars in my pocket. In actuality they were glad to see me get the extra time back.

Do you make your wife proof read your rantings? Poor girl.

No, Its obvious that you dont.

You amfa slugs are real big on this coward name...is there some hidden reason?No reason other than observation.

[post="190090"][/post]​

Ok NW? You ask for information we give it. If you, or anyone else cant read it send me your E-mail address and I'll send the the excell file that it was made on. You see NW, we have nothing to hide whereas you tell people to E-mail Little, then when they ask you for his E-mail you refuse to give it.

 

[FWAAA]

AMFA represented mechanics make more than we do. In fact yesterday as we were making $30/hr working Columbus day they were making up $90/hr.

No concessions and they will be making $400/week more than we will by 2008. Glad you think thats funny. I dont.

[post="190131"][/post]​

I could understand being upset if you had to work Christmas day for straight time instead of triple time, but time for a reality check: Columbus Day? Here in LA, everyone went to work, everyone went to school, life went on. Oh, yeah, the lazy slugs at the Post Office had the day off, but for everyone else, it was just Monday, not Jackpot Payday.

How positive are you that WN will not seek to lower its labor costs between now and 2008? Do you honestly think that WN is going to allow its represented employees to earn more than the workers at any other airline forever? Seriously.

You (and others) constantly say that AA will soon come after your pensions and seek other concessions and probably even file Ch 11 just because other legacy airlines have done so. If you are right about that, why won't WN do the same thing? What makes them so special that they could ignore becoming the high-cost carrier in a world of restructured low cost carriers??

 

[Bob Owens]

I could understand being upset if you had to work Christmas day for straight time instead of triple time, but time for a reality check: Columbus Day? Here in LA, everyone went to work, everyone went to school, life went on. Oh, yeah, the lazy slugs at the Post Office had the day off, but for everyone else, it was just Monday, not Jackpot Payday.


Lazy slugs at the post office? Nice, coming from someone who lives off the spoils of other peoples labor.

How positive are you that WN will not seek to lower its labor costs between now and 2008? Do you honestly think that WN is going to allow its represented employees to earn more than the workers at any other airline forever?

Well they have for some time now.

You (and others) constantly say that AA will soon come after your pensions and seek other concessions and probably even file Ch 11 just because other legacy airlines have done so. If you are right about that, why won't WN do the same thing?


Why would they? Have they taken on huge amounts of debt to overexpand? While AA and other carriers were chasing "market share" SWA was simply finding new markets. Didnt SWA's good credit enable them to hedge their fuel at favorable rates?

What makes them so special that they could ignore becoming the high-cost carrier in a world of restructured low cost carriers??

You are the one who puts on that you are a financial genius, you figure it out. Here is a clue;good morale = high productivity.

[post="190177"][/post]​

 

[FWAAA]

Here is a clue;good morale = high productivity.

[post="190305"][/post]​

I agree with you about that. I've mentioned WN's superior productivity many times before. WN ended 2003 with 1,956 maintenance employees and 388 737s.

AA ended 2003 with how many thousand maintenance employees? (nobody really knows) and 741 mainline jets in active service.

Talk about a lean machine. Those guys at Southwest sure know how to make do with less. And since good morale is probably gone forever (if it ever existed) at AA (according to you and your friends), AA will never get that kind of work from its workers.

And for all your yapping about AA outsourcing more than any other airline: If AA outsourced in the same proportion that WN outsources, AA's maintenance materials and repairs would have totaled $1.3 billion in 2003 instead of the actual $714 million. WN's maintenance materials and repairs line item was a whopping $430 million, despite having only one-third of AA's revenue and just over half as many airplanes. Looks like WN outsources a much greater percentage of their maintenance work.

And although you probably don't like anyone pointing it out, AA's maintenance materials and repairs line item has fallen consistently from 2001-2003, while the Southwest maintenance materials and repairs line item has ballooned during the same time frame.

Looks like outsourcing is dropping at AA and climbing at WN, if you look at the actual numbers.

But why let a few facts get in the way of your superior intellectual arguments, right?

Aw, shucks, Mr Owens, you're the genius, not me, since I've never been able to convince anyone to pay me triple just for working on Columbus Day.

WN's 10-K: http://ir.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo=te...=157&source=770

AA's 10-K: http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....-2666&SID=04-00

 

[Buck]

I agree with you about that. I've mentioned WN's superior productivity many times before. WN ended 2003 with 1,956 maintenance employees and 388 737s.

AA ended 2003 with how many thousand maintenance employees? (nobody really knows) and 741 mainline jets in active service.

Talk about a lean machine. Those guys at Southwest sure know how to make do with less. And since good morale is probably gone forever (if it ever existed) at AA (according to you and your friends), AA will never get that kind of work from its workers.

And for all your yapping about AA outsourcing more than any other airline: If AA outsourced in the same proportion that WN outsources, AA's maintenance materials and repairs would have totaled $1.3 billion in 2003 instead of the actual $714 million. WN's maintenance materials and repairs line item was a whopping $430 million, despite having only one-third of AA's revenue and just over half as many airplanes. Looks like WN outsources a much greater percentage of their maintenance work.

And although you probably don't like anyone pointing it out, AA's maintenance materials and repairs line item has fallen consistently from 2001-2003, while the Southwest maintenance materials and repairs line item has ballooned during the same time frame.

Looks like outsourcing is dropping at AA and climbing at WN, if you look at the actual numbers.

But why let a few facts get in the way of your superior intellectual arguments, right?

Aw, shucks, Mr Owens, you're the genius, not me, since I've never been able to convince anyone to pay me triple just for working on Columbus Day.

WN's 10-K: http://ir.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo=te...=157&source=770

AA's 10-K: http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....-2666&SID=04-00

[post="190395"][/post]​

Wow! You sure told Mr. Owens. Now could you explain why AA does not make a profit comparable to WN?

 

[Nightwatch]

I think a spanking just occurred...c'mon now Booby, pick yourself up, brush yourself off, look squarely in the mirror and state.."...Delle, I am important,..Delle?"

 

[Buck]

I think a spanking just occurred...c'mon now Booby, pick yourself up, brush yourself off, look squarely in the mirror and state.."...Delle, I am important,..Delle?"

[post="190716"][/post]​

The spanking has yet to start. However it appears that Nightwatch will be the Nightbitch.

 

[Nightwatch]

Are you gay? Was that the best come on you have?..now...go Buck off!

 

[Bob Owens]

FWAAA,Oct 13 2004, 05:32 AM]
I agree with you about that. I've mentioned WN's superior productivity many times before. WN ended 2003 with 1,956 maintenance employees and 388 737s.


AA ended 2003 with how many thousand maintenance employees? (nobody really knows) and 741 mainline jets in active service.

Talk about a lean machine. Those guys at Southwest sure know how to make do with less. And since good morale is probably gone forever (if it ever existed) at AA (according to you and your friends), AA will never get that kind of work from its workers.

Your numbers are misleading, SWA is still growing and as they do they will start to bring more work in house. So even though they may only have 1956, as you claim, they probably generate work for far more than that.

You may be right about AA never getting the same productivity, especially since they want to pay mechanics $400 a week less than SWA.


And for all your yapping about AA outsourcing more than any other airline: If AA outsourced in the same proportion that WN outsources, AA's maintenance materials and repairs would have totaled $1.3 billion in 2003 instead of the actual $714 million. WN's maintenance materials and repairs line item was a whopping $430 million, despite having only one-third of AA's revenue and just over half as many airplanes. Looks like WN outsources a much greater percentage of their maintenance work.

Of course they do,historically smaller airlines usually do outsource more work because they do not have the volume of work to make it cost effective to do it in house.

Proportions are relevant only if all other conditions are the same.

The question is as an employee would you rather that the company paid you more or cut your pay so they could make it more cost effective to keep work in house? If you choose cut your pay but then they still outsource a lot anyway then you lost on both ends.

And although you probably don't like anyone pointing it out, AA's maintenance materials and repairs line item has fallen consistently from 2001-2003, while the Southwest maintenance materials and repairs line item has ballooned during the same time frame.

Looks like outsourcing is dropping at AA and climbing at WN, if you look at the actual numbers.

Well of course it has, for several reasons, one, because for AA its cheaper to do it in house than outsource it. We gave the company OSMs. From the perspective of an A&P mechanic this work has been outsourced, only to other TWU members within the company. Its still work that, as far as an A&P mechanic, is gone. So not only did we give the company outsource labor rates for a lot of Overhaul but they also got a hugely discounted A&P Mechanics rate, by 2008 over $20,000 less a year than the LCC SWA.

Another, AAs lower labor costs will continue to pressure competitors that do not have the luxury of a company union to outsource in search of cheaper labor. You obviously look at all this from the perspective of a non-union person. While you try to rationalize a race to the bottom in compensation as workers, and unionists our objective is the opposite.

And also, SWA numbers are going up because they are growing, while AAs numbers are going down as they shrink. AA is now about the same size as it was before we bought TWA. AA has thousands of workers on lay off, SWA has none, left that one out didnt you?

But why let a few facts get in the way of your superior intellectual arguments, right?

Well you seems to have left a few facts out, and they change the picture quite a bit.

Aw, shucks, Mr Owens, you're the genius, not me, since I've never been able to convince anyone to pay me triple just for working on Columbus Day.

Thanks for the compliment but really it does not take a genius to figure out that we have been screwed. I'll give you the credit that you deserve, your position on this requires a lot more intellectual ability than mine. Its always easier to tell the truth than to decieve.
WN's 10-K: http://ir.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo=te...=157&source=770

AA's 10-K: http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....-2666&SID=04-00

Ps By the way we never got triple time under ANY circumstances.

You may be exaggerating what we did get for working holidays. Prior to the concessions we got 10 paid holidays off. However the company had the right to require that we work, so they had to pay us time and a half-normal OT rates, in additioon to the 8 hours for the paid holiday. So you might call this double-time and a half, not triple time. By the way I'm told non union Delta in effect gets double time for the holidays, they get the eight hours pay plus a comp day off, with pay. We on the other hand now have 5 paid holidays, however if the company requires that we work they only pay us four hours more for eight hours of work.

 

[FWAAA]

Wow! You sure told Mr. Owens. Now could you explain why AA does not make a profit comparable to WN?

[post="190412"][/post]​

Mr Owens answered it for you.

Here is a clue;good morale = high productivity.

High productivity at WN among all of its work groups (not just mechanics) has allowed it extract much more labor from its employees than AA is able to obtain. Even though its hourly wage rates for certain groups now exceed the wage rates at AA. Its well-timed bets on fuel have helped a lot as well. Its gains from fuel hedges accounted for more than 2/3 of its entire 3Q2004 net income. Were it not for the hedge, the reported profit would have been very small.

Outsourced maintenance continues to grow at WN; it is up 9% over last year.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041014/dath005_1.html

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr Owens answered it for you.

Here is a clue;good morale = high productivity.

High productivity at WN among all of its work groups (not just mechanics) has allowed it extract much more labor from its employees than AA is able to obtain. Even though its hourly wage rates for certain groups now exceed the wage rates at AA. Its well-timed bets on fuel have helped a lot as well. Its gains from fuel hedges accounted for more than 2/3 of its entire 3Q2004 net income. Were it not for the hedge, the reported profit would have been very small.

Outsourced maintenance continues to grow at WN; it is up 9% over last year.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041014/dath005_1.html

[post="190806"][/post]​

What do you mean by;
Even though its hourly wage rates for certain groups now exceed the wage rates at AA. ?

Are you saying that since they pay more they should expect lower morale and productivity?

SWA continues to grow also. How many SWA mechanics are laid off?

Our station is down over 5% just this year in headcount.

 

[Bob Owens]

20 YEARS OF CONCESSIONS IN PAY ALONE.

ADD IN THE BENEFIT AND WORK RULE CONCESSION AND WHAT DO YOU GET?

ANSWER: A DOCILE UNION

[post="107950"][/post]​

Wow, this post has been here since Feb 9, yet the TWU still does not want to talk about it!

 

[Bob Owens]

The TWU still avoids this topic.

 

[Bob Owens]

Just thought I would bring this up again.

Does anyone out there have the figures for Fleet service? I'd like to put the TWUs performance for Fleet service on a graph too.