Aa Pension

[eolesen]

He (Bush) has issued more PEBs against airline workers than any other President in history.

[post="267675"][/post]​

Ah, revisionist history at work....

Bob's whining is correct on the technicality that Bush has called for two PEB's against airlines, which is more than Clinton's one PEB. But he overlooks the fact that Clinton also intervened with APFA and AA, which was one step away from a PEB. Had Crandall turned down Clinton's request, there would have been a PEB, which would put Clinton at a tie with Bush II.

But I find it more interesting that Bob, a unionist, only finds the use of the PEB only to objectionable when it is used against airline unions, and doesn't be too concerned at the plight of the railroad unionist.

Kennedy (D) holds the title of being the President who has issued more PEB's in history, which is even more impressive if you consider that he didn't serve out both terms.

Since 1960, Democrats have used the PEB (61 times) more than Republicans (41 times), which is ironic considering how few Democrats have held the presidency and how much labor supports the Democratic party.

Bush II = 4 (2 being UA/IAM and NW/AMFA)
Clinton = 12 (1 being AA/APA)
Bush I = 4
Reagan = 18 (13 of them dealing with either the LIRR or PATH)
Carter = 10
Ford = 5
Nixon = 10
Johnson = 9
Kennedy = 30

Before that, there hadn't been any hint of presidential intervention with negotiations or strikes at airline unions since 1966, even during the darkest days at Continental or Eastern.

So, before you start making this a party vs. party issue, at least look at the entire picture and realize that in many ways, the Demoncrats have been talking out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to being Labor's Friend.

 

[local 12 proud]

people wake the hell up alraedy! it's all about contributions be it republicrat or demican its all the same, we are not important because we don't give enough to the coffers of politics they see only Big Buissness and will bend over backwards as long as the Green flows. It's WAY PAST TIME FOR LABOR PARTY........ I will never vote again for these NASA trained monkeys!

 

[Bob Owens]

Former ModerAAtor,May 9 2005, 06:23 PM]
Ah, revisionist history at work....

Bob's whining is correct on the technicality that Bush has called for two PEB's against airlines, which is more than Clinton's one PEB.

Lets not forget that Bush said he would not allow any major airline to go on strike while he was President.

But he overlooks the fact that Clinton also intervened with APFA and AA, which was one step away from a PEB. Had Crandall turned down Clinton's request, there would have been a PEB, which would put Clinton at a tie with Bush II.

Talk about revisionism, Crandall was the one begging for a settlement that would allow him to save face.

But I find it more interesting that Bob, a unionist, only finds the use of the PEB only to objectionable when it is used against airline unions, and doesn't be too concerned at the plight of the railroad unionist.

Apparently for the Railroads it has not been as detrimental.

Kennedy (D) holds the title of being the President who has issued more PEB's in history, which is even more impressive if you consider that he didn't serve out both terms.

Since 1960, Democrats have used the PEB (61 times) more than Republicans (41 times), which is ironic considering how few Democrats have held the presidency and how much labor supports the Democratic party.


Perhaps there were times when a PEB was welcomed by the workers as in the case of EAL when Bush refused to issue a PEB. Besides my comment was clear in that I said Airline workers, do you want to start a new topic about the Railroads,maybe we should look at their pension system?
Bush II = 4 (2 being UA/IAM and NW/AMFA)

I believe he also told the Flight Attendants ahead of time, like the mechanics that he would issue a PEB, I believe that was unprecidented for the airline industry since it removes any poressure on the employer to negotiate.

Clinton = 12 (1 being AA/APA)

Did Clinton actually issue a PEB or did he say he would, 5 minutes into the strike?

Before that, there hadn't been any hint of presidential intervention with negotiations or strikes at airline unions since 1966, even during the darkest days at Continental or Eastern.

Yes, thats because during both the EAL and Continental disputes the workers were hoping for a PEB which would maintain the status quo. Once again the bias of the NMB is revealed. In both the EAL and Continental cases the NMB declared an impasse in short order yet when workers are in a position to make gains the PEB refuses to declare an impasse for a long time, often years. In the case of AMFA NW, the mechanics were asking for roughly a 50% increase in order to get up to where their wage should be by using a cola, the NMB said that if they did not lower their demands that they would never declare an impass. This stands in contrast to the fact that Lorenzo was asking for an even larger paycut yet the NMB did not make the same threats, but instead released him right away.

So, before you start making this a party vs. party issue, at least look at the entire picture and realize that in many ways, the Demoncrats have been talking out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to being Labor's Friend.


Maybe before you go telling me what I should do you should reread my post.