Aa Pension

[Boomer]

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Bob,
From what I have been able to gather below, there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans when it comes to screwing over airline workers. As AA and the TWU are fond of saying, this event was the result of a “perfect storm.â€￾ The perfection in the storm lay in the interests each of the parties had with respect to passage of the bill.

S.2282 passed with flying colors among both Republicans and Democrats because both parties wanted the issue "off the table," during the general election. In essence, postponing "judgment day" to the mid-year elections or possibly making the issue irrelevant. But, like the Savings and Loan debacle, which this boondoggle stands to double; everyone was warned by the PBGC prior to making the decision.
Director, PBGC: Senate Testimony March 11, 2003
Director, PBGC: House Testimony April 30, 2003
Director, PBGC: Senate Testimony October 8, 2004
Sen. Kennedy had a choice to make when it came to sponsorship of the bill: he could have filibustered its passage and allowed Kerry to take it up as a main issue in the general elections. This is not the first time that the good Senator from Massachusetts has decided to gaff the working stiff: Sen. Kennedy was a force behind the deregulation of the airline industry and inclusion of “labor protective provisionsâ€￾ within the ADA of 1978 that were never funded.
Kennedy, Carter and Airline Deregulation
Shortfunding the Labor Protective Provisions of the Airline Deregulation Act

But Kennedy was not alone, look at the co-sponsor to the bill, the Minority Senate Leader, Tom Daschle, D-SD. Sen. Daschle’s’ wife is a highly paid lobbyist with a firm that has AA among their client list. Daschle Married to Influential AIrline Industry Lobbyist

That brings us back to the unquestioned allegiance between the AFL-CIO and the Democratic party, and, why it is ultimately bad for the worker. The AFL-CIO and Union Leadership refusal to make Democrats pay the price for the passage of bills that hurt working people has made them irrelevant to the process. If the AFL-CIO and the Union Leadership put labor squarely in the middle and "giveth or taketh away" based on actual deals done, versus platitudes; we would reward those that help and hurt those that do not.

As it stands, labor does neither. We are the barking dog left on a chain, irritating but not dangerous.

The continuation of power is what most that possess it seek. The only thing that voters can really do is to take away the power of those we elect by refusing to re-elect them. The doddering politburo atop the Unions and the AFL-CIO have come to identify with those that harm us. They get Stockholm Syndrome and we get the personal finance version of the China Syndrome.

[post="240314"][/post]​

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To access the links shown, simply click on the above link(s) and then either delete the additional http// reference shown in the IE browser or cut-n-paste the link into your browser and then delete the extra http:// reference.

 

[MCI transplant]

FWAAA,

Again, I see the threat to my DBP as being the continued collusion between the TWU and AA through the mechanism of the Overland Hospice Workers. The compAAny will seek some type of pph, (price per hour), reduction in our cost structure and the TWU will offer an either or presentation to the membership. Either you accept a decrease in your pay or a freeze in your pension and a conversion to a DCP.

Everytime we see a member of the TWU International, they defend their "without further ratification," ratification of the AA Concession PlAAn. We are now seeing the Vermont PlAAn implemented, even though we gave the compAAny more than the AAsked.

We still have AFW and TULE operating at less than full capacity: costing the compAAny more money than is necessary, while MCIE is kept open even though everyone knows that that base has open EPA issues.

I have been told that AA knows these issues are real but continues the current situation because it is bait for the eventual freezing, outside BK, of our DBP plan with the real assumption that all of MCIE and most of TULE will vote for it.

[post="241536"][/post]​

<_< Boomer----- Why do you think MCIE would vote for a freeze? We've already been down that road! Believe me it go'es nowhere! We have nothing to loose! Our retirement (a.a.'s) started in 01! And most of us feel we'll all be gone by June anyway! So bring on your vote! Although, your probably right on with TUL! :down:

 

[Winglet]

Bush's trade policy is virtually assuring that pensions for ordinary workers (not the corporate elite) are going away. The standard you need to measure you job against is Chinese 10 cent labor. If a Chinaman or East Indian can do it cheaper than you, then thats where you're job is going.

You fools voted Bush in. Now you're going to have to live with him and his corporate cronies. . . . . SUCKERS.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< As for EPA issues, here at MCI, or anywhere on a.a.'s maintenance system, they are libal for any and all clean up! When a.a. bought TWA, they assumed not only it's assits, but it's libelitys also! So they can't just walk away from them!

 

[aafsc]

<_< As for EPA issues, here at MCI, or anywhere on a.a.'s maintenance system, they are libal for any and all clean up! When a.a. bought TWA, they assumed not only it's assits, but it's libelitys also! So they can't just walk away from them!

[post="241812"][/post]​

Another reason why the transaction was a bad idea.

 

[MCI transplant]

Another reason why the transaction was a bad idea.

[post="241818"][/post]​

<_< Tell that to the boys in TUL working on ex-TWA Aircraft, while they lay ex-TWA people off!!!!

 

[Boomer]

MCI Txplant,
When AMR held TWA assets in the LLC, they witheld liability from the parent corporation through the subsidiary; ergo the LLC designation. Closure of the LLC into the parent body buys the malignancies born from the host.

 

[aafsc]

<_< Tell that to the boys in TUL working on ex-TWA Aircraft, while they lay ex-TWA people off!!!!

[post="241827"][/post]​

[/quote

Here we go again MCI. I looked in SABRE today and there are 14 planes in MCIE. 2 were 767-200's (AA aircraft), 1 767-300 (if I remember correctly also AA aircraft), and the rest super 80s (former TWA and AA) and 1 or 2 former TWA 757s. In tulsa SABRE showed 1 or 2 former TWA super 80s. A lot of these planes I suspect are having the seats put back in. So while there are a couple of ex-TWA super 80s in TUL, there are a lot more origional AA aircraft in MCI being worked on by you and the other TWA people. As for layoffs, Almost all of the TWA people laid off in MCI bumped out NAAtives to the street in the 25% cities. As I posted a while ago, there are more actual NAAtives gone than ex-TWA gone.

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI Txplant,
When AMR held TWA assets in the LLC, they witheld liability from the parent corporation through the subsidiary; ergo the LLC designation. Closure of the LLC into the parent body buys the malignancies born from the host.

[post="241831"][/post]​

<_< Good luck on that one! Do you really feel the City, State, etc., would let them get away with that? 😉

 

[Hopeful]

<_< Tell that to the boys in TUL working on ex-TWA Aircraft, while they lay ex-TWA people off!!!!

[post="241827"][/post]​

[/quote

Here we go again MCI. I looked in SABRE today and there are 14 planes in MCIE. 2 were 767-200's (AA aircraft), 1 767-300 (if I remember correctly also AA aircraft), and the rest super 80s (former TWA and AA) and 1 or 2 former TWA 757s. In tulsa SABRE showed 1 or 2 former TWA super 80s. A lot of these planes I suspect are having the seats put back in. So while there are a couple of ex-TWA super 80s in TUL, there are a lot more origional AA aircraft in MCI being worked on by you and the other TWA people. As for layoffs, Almost all of the TWA people laid off in MCI bumped out NAAtives to the street in the 25% cities. As I posted a while ago, there are more actual NAAtives gone than ex-TWA gone.

[post="241832"][/post]​

MCI TRANSPLANT and the rest of the TWAers would like nothing better than for ALL TWA people to be on the payroll and for ALL AAErs to be on the street.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Tell that to the boys in TUL working on ex-TWA Aircraft, while they lay ex-TWA people off!!!!

[post="241827"][/post]​

[/quote

Here we go again MCI. I looked in SABRE today and there are 14 planes in MCIE. 2 were 767-200's (AA aircraft), 1 767-300 (if I remember correctly also AA aircraft), and the rest super 80s (former TWA and AA) and 1 or 2 former TWA 757s. In tulsa SABRE showed 1 or 2 former TWA super 80s. A lot of these planes I suspect are having the seats put back in. So while there are a couple of ex-TWA super 80s in TUL, there are a lot more origional AA aircraft in MCI being worked on by you and the other TWA people. As for layoffs, Almost all of the TWA people laid off in MCI bumped out NAAtives to the street in the 25% cities. As I posted a while ago, there are more actual NAAtives gone than ex-TWA gone.

[post="241832"][/post]​

<_< aa! You are a pill! First the 2 767-200 A/C here at MCI, one is ex-a.a., now belongs to Capital Aircraft, the other is going back to them. Yes, we have one a.a. 767-300 "C" check. ( The last of our perminant work)! We have two MD80 lines that are finishing up their last, or next to last "C" checks, and a few seat mod. MD-80's! Since you like checking Saber, check and see how much work is scheduled in here after June??? As for the people bumping to 25% stations, you'de even begrudge them that would you? Well, if the union and a.a. would abide by their own contact, which you so often quote, they would be bumping with 100% Seniority, not just 25%! All of the above has been documented, and close to 300 greavances have been filed!

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< aa! You are a pill! First the 2 767-200 A/C here at MCI, one is ex-a.a., now belongs to Capital Aircraft, the other is going back to them. Yes, we have one a.a. 767-300 "C" check. ( The last of our perminant work)! We have two MD80 lines that are finishing up their last, or next to last "C" checks, and a few seat mod. MD-80's! Since you like checking Saber, check and see how much work is scheduled in here after June??? As for the people bumping to 25% stations, you'de even begrudge them that would you? Well, if the union and a.a. would abide by their own contact, which you so often quote, they would be bumping with 100% Seniority, not just 25%! All of the above has been documented, and close to 300 greavances have been filed!

[post="241916"][/post]​

So you feel that you should be rewarded for all the concessions you gave to TWA by bumping and employee at AA into the street?

Ok, everyone has their point of view.

If you want to be treated like union people then you guys should have acted like union people. The only workers that have a real gripe are the Ex-EAL guys who fought concessions. I dont expect companies to recognize that but unions should.

What great stands did you take for the labor movement? Giving away your pension, the lowest wage of all the majors? What should we step aside for?

So you filed 300 grievances, but you forget that the TWU is the union who you filed them through.

Speaking of grievances has any one heard anything on the force-majeure grievance that the TWU filed in 2001????

As far as June, well I could say "I told you so" but why bother? The fact is that many ex-TWA would like to see MCI or STL close, this way they could go back to where they came from. Even some of those who were laid off from STL have said that they hope they get laid off to the street. They are tired of the commute, share basement apartments with 3 or 4 others who sleep in shifts and commute home whenever they can. The TWU has them living like, and competeing for living quarters with, illegal aliens!

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA,

Again, I see the threat to my DBP as being the continued collusion between the TWU and AA through the mechanism of the Overland Hospice Workers. The compAAny will seek some type of pph, (price per hour), reduction in our cost structure and the TWU will offer an either or presentation to the membership. Either you accept a decrease in your pay or a freeze in your pension and a conversion to a DCP.

Everytime we see a member of the TWU International, they defend their "without further ratification," ratification of the AA Concession PlAAn. We are now seeing the Vermont PlAAn implemented, even though we gave the compAAny more than the AAsked.

We still have AFW and TULE operating at less than full capacity: costing the compAAny more money than is necessary, while MCIE is kept open even though everyone knows that that base has open EPA issues.

I have been told that AA knows these issues are real but continues the current situation because it is bait for the eventual freezing, outside BK, of our DBP plan with the real assumption that all of MCIE and most of TULE will vote for it.

[post="241536"][/post]​

Sadly, your view might turn out to be an accurate prediction.

I still hope you're wrong. My prediction is that USAir and UAL cease flying prior to June 30, and the ridiculous concessions granted at those carriers won't be part of any new market realities. My prediction is that the concessions at those airlines contributes to a complete breakdown in morale and both airlines simply implode.

But then again, I'm not AMR (nor am I employed by it or any of its subs), and we have all seen AMR do some stupid things.

Best wishes to all AA employees.

 

[Bob Owens]

My prediction is that USAir and UAL cease flying prior to June 30, and the ridiculous concessions granted at those carriers won't be part of any new market realities. My prediction is that the concessions at those airlines contributes to a complete breakdown in morale and both airlines simply implode.

[post="241940"][/post]​

You mean the ones like the TWU has been giving to AA for the last twenty years?

 

[Oneflyer]

You mean the ones like the TWU has been giving to AA for the last twenty years?

Its just too bad Bob, I guess the company should pay you to sit around on your ass and smoke cigarettes all day.