Aa Slow Death

[MCI transplant]

Well I read it as sarcasm...and thought it was funny . I think the point she was making was that what goes around just might come around. Lighten up, man! :down:

[post="203008"][/post]​

<_< I 'de love to, but with 300+ ex-TWAers going out the door Dec.3rd, at STL/ MCIe. ( Not TUL, or AFW) it's not quit that easy!!! :down:

 

[aafsc]

wrenched wrench wrote: With Southwest's success and AA's lingering death, the best we can hope for is for them to buy us, or at least our assets. Then we can keep our seniority (or perhaps some of it) and be elevated to their pay (and benefits) scale.

Well if you brought planes, routes, landing rights, etc - why shouldn't you get seniority? If it is two great airlines being combined into one great airline - why shouldn't you get seniority?

[post="203001"][/post]​

You did get seniority, in the two bases that you brought to the table (STL and MCI). Why should you get seniority in AA bases? That would be extremely unfair to the AA people. When the transaction was first announced, there were TWA rampers saying "I'm going to take my 40 years and go to TUS" well TWA did not even fly to TUS. You had TWA pilots talking about flying the 777. You had the TWA flight attendants looking at routes like DFW-NRT, ORD-NRT, JFK-NRT etc., and drooling. The message was clear, they wanted to take their TWA seniority, move to the top of the combined list, and steal the best positions from the AA employees. It would not have been fair for the TWA people to go from a liquidated company to the top of the seniority list of a successful one. The AA people built AA over the years and fought for the wages and benefits that they enjoyed. The TWA people wanted to take our house and enjoy the fruits of our labor. Well, they tried. They stuck their hands into AA, tried to steal our seniority but they drew back a nub. Since STL and MCI is being scaled back it is appropriate for former TWA people to be laid off (I don't like to see ANYONE lose their jobs). If AA was to scale back DFW or AFW it would be AA people hitting the street. Well, got to go to work now and hear the supposedely big announcement today at our city. I might get laid off with 15 years (and I'm a nAAtive). Judging from previous posts, I know that will bring great joy to a lot of TWAers.

 

[aafsc]

<_< I 'de love to, but with 300+ ex-TWAers going out the door Dec.3rd, at STL/ MCIe. ( Not TUL, or AFW) it's not quit that easy!!! :down:

[post="203066"][/post]​

Don't forget about the 14 AA mechanics at MCIe.

 

[firstamendment]

<_< I 'de love to, but with 300+ ex-TWAers going out the door Dec.3rd, at STL/ MCIe. ( Not TUL, or AFW) it's not quit that easy!!! :down:

[post="203066"][/post]​

Hey dude,
I'm on your side. To be honest, I had no idea ANYONE was left from TWA. Sorry to hear the news. The comment was intended for the "true" <_< AA's.

 

[aafsc]

Hey dude,
I'm on your side. To be honest, I had no idea ANYONE was left from TWA. Sorry to hear the news. The comment was intended for the "true" <_< AA's.

[post="203096"][/post]​

Right now, there are about 6,000 former TWA people still at AA.

 

[MCI transplant]

Right now, there are about 6,000 former TWA people still at AA.

[post="203100"][/post]​

<_< Man you are sick! First off there are no where near 6,000! At this time, before this latest R.I.F., I don't think there are 4,000! There were Aprox. 22,000 on 4/10/01!!Where did they all go???? And yes we have 100% here at MCIe, and STL! So what do'es a.a. do about that? Simple! Get reed for STL, and MCIe! End of problem!!! So you have 15 years with a.a.! And you feel we all were going to get on chartered school bus, and come on down to TUL, or AFW and "Steal" your jobs???? If you had a brain in your head, and just by looking at our Seniority you would have known better! First, I'm working with people with more than 40 years Senority! I have 30+ years! Ways that? Because we were screwed out of our retirement by Carl Icahn and our Management before him! Bottom line, we can't afford to retire! But that's water under the bridge! We all have friends and family, homes, and lives here! In two, years, if this place is still here! (Which is a BIG if!) the average senority here will be drasticaly reduced! You talk about "Fair"! But in your mind, "Fair" is all one sided!! "Fair" is a relative thing! It can mean diferant things to diferant people! But what is "Right!" and what is "Wrong!" is pretty cut and dry! And what a.a., and it's Unions, have done to the ex- TWA employees is just plan "WRONG!!!!!" :down:

 

[jsn25911]

Right now, there are about 6,000 former TWA people still at AA.

[post="203100"][/post]​

I have to agree that you are ONE SICK DUDE! Your philosophy of "what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine" is SICK. Oh, so it is okay for you to take the TWA routes, TWA planes, etc. You demonstrate a "ME< ME< ME" attitude dude - get a grip!

If you think the TWA people got such a great deal - I wish the same will happen to you when the time comes that someone takes AA. Just wait it will happen. Everything AA is doing now is follow the same procedure that all airlines followed previously. It may be 10-15 years - but it will happen. At that time you may also be up there in years and have some new dude work while you are out being retrained, and can't get insurance because of a previous condition.

 

[firstamendment]

I have to agree that you are ONE SICK DUDE! Your philosophy of "what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine" is SICK. Oh, so it is okay for you to take the TWA routes, TWA planes, etc. You demonstrate a "ME< ME< ME" attitude dude - get a grip!

If you think the TWA people got such a great deal - I wish the same will happen to you when the time comes that someone takes AA. Just wait it will happen. Everything AA is doing now is follow the same procedure that all airlines followed previously. It may be 10-15 years - but it will happen. At that time you may also be up there in years and have some new dude work while you are out being retrained, and can't get insurance because of a previous condition.

[post="203130"][/post]​

Exactly why I said what I did. I have followed the scenerio...4000 or 6000...matters not. I honestly thought you were all gone. Good luck, guys.

 

[jsn25911]

Thanks firstamendment - I guess I came down a little hard. It is just that people are losing their homes, going bankrupt, can't find jobs because of their age, going back to school, living on food stamps......

 

[local 12 proud]

<_< Man you are sick! First off there are no where near 6,000! At this time, before this latest R.I.F., I don't think there are 4,000! There were Aprox. 22,000 on 4/10/01!!Where did they all go???? And yes we have 100% here at MCIe, and STL! So what do'es a.a. do about that? Simple! Get reed for STL, and MCIe! End of problem!!! So you have 15 years with a.a.! And you feel we all were going to get on chartered school bus, and come on down to TUL, or AFW and "Steal" your jobs???? If you had a brain in your head, and just by looking at our Seniority you would have known better! First, I'm working with people with more than 40 years Senority! I have 30+ years! Ways that? Because we were screwed out of our retirement by Carl Icahn and our Management before him! Bottom line, we can't afford to retire! But that's water under the bridge! We all have friends and family, homes, and lives here! In two, years, if this place is still here! (Which is a BIG if!) the average senority here will be drasticaly reduced! You talk about "Fair"! But in your mind, "Fair" is all one sided!! "Fair" is a relative thing! It can mean diferant things to diferant people! But what is "Right!" and what is "Wrong!" is pretty cut and dry! And what a.a., and it's Unions, have done to the ex- TWA employees is just plan "WRONG!!!!!" :down:

[post="203116"][/post]​

if someone has'nt built a nest egg after 30 or 40 years of service and has depended entirely on a "pension" that a company who has proven year after year all they can do is lose money and come for concessions time after time then i fear that individual has'nt lived within his/her means. i know its a hard pill to swallow but the only person accountable for your future is the one staring back at you in the mirror. AA owes you nothing, the Government owes you nothing, and society owes you nothing. you were given the same libertys and freedoms all U.S. citzens are entilted to perhaps you should have planned a little better financially over the past "30" years!........................good luck!

 

[local 12 proud]

Thanks firstamendment - I guess I came down a little hard. It is just that people are losing their homes, going bankrupt, can't find jobs because of their age, going back to school, living on food stamps......

[post="203158"][/post]​

Life as they say is a "bi**h" and does'nt always meet our expectations, and i truly feel bad for anyone losing jobs, houses, etc... but we are all players in this game of life and all suffer hardships at one time or another! the next time you feel your "LIFE" is the pits and you have it so bad might i encourage you to go visit the nearest Childrens Hospital and those who have really been given a BAD lot in life.

 

[Bob Owens]

MCI transplant,Nov 22 2004, 06:16 PM]
<_< Man you are sick! First off there are no where near 6,000! At this time, before this latest R.I.F., I don't think there are 4,000! There were Aprox. 22,000 on 4/10/01!!


Hey I thought the TWU said they saved 12000 jobs?! Now you are saying that they lost 18000! So tell us once more why you want to stick with the TWU?

Where did they all go????

And yes we have 100% here at MCIe, and STL! So what do'es a.a. do about that? Simple! Get reed for STL, and MCIe! End of problem!!!


What does "get reed for" mean?

So you have 15 years with a.a.! And you feel we all were going to get on chartered school bus, and come on down to TUL, or AFW and "Steal" your jobs???? If you had a brain in your head, and just by looking at our Seniority you would have known better! First, I'm working with people with more than 40 years Senority! I have 30+ years! Ways that? Because we were screwed out of our retirement by Carl Icahn and our Management before him! Bottom line, we can't afford to retire!


Why didnt you vote no? If you would have struck 15 years ago, then with the worst case scenario you would have been vested somewhere else by now.

But that's water under the bridge! We all have friends and family, homes, and lives here! In two, years, if this place is still here! (Which is a BIG if!) the average senority here will be drasticaly reduced!

The seniority will be reduced? Dont you mean higher?

You talk about "Fair"! But in your mind, "Fair" is all one sided!! "Fair" is a relative thing!

True.
It can mean diferant things to diferant people! But what is "Right!" and what is "Wrong!" is pretty cut and dry!


Oh really? And is it "right" for workers in low cost areas to set pay rates for everyone based on the cost of living where they live? Is it right for them to tell workers well if it costs too much there-where their "friends and family, homes, and lives are"- then move?

And what a.a., and it's Unions, have done to the ex- TWA employees is just plan "WRONG!!!!!"

Ok, so what should the workers who have been here at AA have done? Stepped aside and let you take their jobs? AA was hiring on a pretty consistant basis for the last twenty years. They have tripled in size since 1983. In fact they have been hiring all through the period of TWAs three(?) bankruptcies. The opportunity was there for you to come here, in fact many did make such a move. They quit TWA and went to AA. You chose to stay. AA was hiring people of all ages, some into their 60s, so you cant say that you could not go.


I realize its not an easy thing to do, but it was a choice you made. I'm not saying that what is happening is fair, or just, or right, thats the way it is and the false security that you enjoyed by giving concessions for the last two decades instead of fighting is now being exposed. The fact is that no matter what was done someone would have lost something. Which was the lesser evil? Well that all depends on where you were now doesnt it?

The question is, are you prepared to try and make things better or do you want to just complain?

 

[firstamendment]

Thanks firstamendment - I guess I came down a little hard. It is just that people are losing their homes, going bankrupt, can't find jobs because of their age, going back to school, living on food stamps......

[post="203158"][/post]​

Well, my friend, you are preaching to the choir.

We here at US feel your pain and the entire industry. Just know that while this is little comfort, the majority of the indusrty is in somewhat of a familiar position as the TWA's, Pan Am's, and Easterns of yester year. The only difference is you guys got screwed at a very unfortunate time under abnormal circumstances.

You guy's battle with this one will go on forever because both sides passionately thinkk their right.

Wow, if we could all see in that crystal ball.

 

[MCI transplant]

Well, my friend, you are preaching to the choir.

We here at US feel your pain and the entire industry. Just know that while this is little comfort, the majority of the indusrty is in somewhat of a familiar position as the TWA's, Pan Am's, and Easterns of yester year. The only difference is you guys got screwed at a very unfortunate time under abnormal circumstances.

You guy's battle with this one will go on forever because both sides passionately thinkk their right.

Wow, if we could all see in that crystal ball.

[post="203195"][/post]​

<_< If we could all have seen it!!!!I know we all have our problems , but as exTWA people, we do have an "Insight" as to what your going through! Thanks for the support! And good luck to all of you at US!!! I believe our infamaous CEO stated last week that he is whiching both you and United! So indectly our fate is in your hands!!! So don't screw up! And do the right thing!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

Life as they say is a "bi**h" and does'nt always meet our expectations, and i truly feel bad for anyone losing jobs, houses, etc... but we are all players in this game of life and all suffer hardships at one time or another! the next time you feel your "LIFE" is the pits and you have it so bad might i encourage you to go visit the nearest Childrens Hospital and those who have really been given a BAD lot in life.

[post="203175"][/post]​

<_< Hey proud! How old are you? From your post it sounds like your, maybe twenty three? Yes, we have our nesteggs! Our second jobs! If you had your pay frozen for eight years, maybe that nestegg wouldn't be as big as it would normaly be! What would you know of that? But I'm not the one bitching here! I've had 30+ years at TWA/a.a.! And yes! There are those a lot worse off than us!My beef is with those smug @#$% that don't realize that the ex-TWA people, to date, have been insulting "them" from going out on the street themselfs! When I see a man with 15-18 years, go out the door! Knowing there's some kid in TUL with 5 still working! That my friend is not right!!!!AMFA/TWU/IAM, not right!!!! :down: