Afa Wants To Authorize Strike
- Thread starter herkav8r
- Start date
Thanks for the info Tech. It makes for EXTREMELY boring but interesting reading. It reinforces my belief that the unions would have a right to some sort of self help if a judge imposes a contract under the 1113c process.
*IF* the AFA strikes, do I think ALPA would cross? I have no idea. Does it matter? If the AFA could somehow seriously organize a strike at UAL (that's open to conjecture) we'd be liquidated in short order in my opinion anyway. Can the AFA get sympathy strikes/CHAOS at its other airline members? Doubtful, except for a few "hard liners" at other airlines perhaps. Even if they could, I'm not even sure what that would accomplish except for heavy fines for the AFA. Ask the American Airlines Pilots' union how their alleged illegal sick-out went when American bought Reno. They were fined 10's of millions of dollars.
Look, I really think this AFA strike/CHAOS/whatever thing is being blown way out of proportion. As I said before, no offense AFA people, but consider the membership. You have a group that only understands a few things right now. First, the vast majority of their members have never seen the inside of a union hall. Second, they already gave up about 10% and work rules the first time around. Now, the company is coming after them again for what essentially will be at max a 14% paycut (realistically only 6% if we make it out of bankruptcy) and some more work rules. They're mad, they're paying dues, and they're thinking, "What's the point of paying dues if the company is going to come after my pay again?" The AFA leaders aren't idiots, and in order to keep their members happy they're going to huff and puff in the media, because that's what their membership wants to see. They can take strike votes until the cows come home, but I think the AFA leadership, along with the other unions' leaders, understand UAL's financial situation and will make purdent decisions despite the drama.
*IF* the AFA strikes, do I think ALPA would cross? I have no idea. Does it matter? If the AFA could somehow seriously organize a strike at UAL (that's open to conjecture) we'd be liquidated in short order in my opinion anyway. Can the AFA get sympathy strikes/CHAOS at its other airline members? Doubtful, except for a few "hard liners" at other airlines perhaps. Even if they could, I'm not even sure what that would accomplish except for heavy fines for the AFA. Ask the American Airlines Pilots' union how their alleged illegal sick-out went when American bought Reno. They were fined 10's of millions of dollars.
Look, I really think this AFA strike/CHAOS/whatever thing is being blown way out of proportion. As I said before, no offense AFA people, but consider the membership. You have a group that only understands a few things right now. First, the vast majority of their members have never seen the inside of a union hall. Second, they already gave up about 10% and work rules the first time around. Now, the company is coming after them again for what essentially will be at max a 14% paycut (realistically only 6% if we make it out of bankruptcy) and some more work rules. They're mad, they're paying dues, and they're thinking, "What's the point of paying dues if the company is going to come after my pay again?" The AFA leaders aren't idiots, and in order to keep their members happy they're going to huff and puff in the media, because that's what their membership wants to see. They can take strike votes until the cows come home, but I think the AFA leadership, along with the other unions' leaders, understand UAL's financial situation and will make purdent decisions despite the drama.
You are so full of it! Have you SEEN the tenative? If you had, you'd know that it is MUCH more than a 14% paycut. This is a complete gutting of our contract. We have no doubt in our minds that ALPA would never support us, you guys only look out for yourselves anyway (think Summer of 2000!) You post your tenative and I'll post mine...then we'll talk.
Put it this way, we will close the company. You know why? Because we have NOTHING to lose. How's that sound?
Put it this way, we will close the company. You know why? Because we have NOTHING to lose. How's that sound?
- Thread Starter
- #34
Sounds like a bunch of FA in the unemployment line with no marketable job skills. In fact, the only group with any marketable skills are the mechanics.
Fly-
I didn't say it was just a 14% pay cut. I said it was 14% (maybe) AND some work rules. Please re-read my post. Yes, I did read your tentative. I have a copy of it on my hard drive along with AMFA's. I'm still waiting for ALPA's.
And don't act like you guys are the only ones who have given up work rules. Our contract was gutted the last time around, as was everyone elses'.
Fly said: "We have no doubt in our minds that ALPA would never support us, you guys only look out for yourselves anyway (think Summer of 2000!) "
Let me get this straight, Fly. Right now as your union is threatening to strike/CHAOS/sickout in the media in order to advance your cause, you're going to criticize ALPA for the summer of 2000? Your union is publically advocating an action that could shut down UAL, US Air, ATA, and Hawaiian and you're bashing the summer of 2000? UFB!! You're kidding, right?
"You post your tenative and I'll post mine...then we'll talk."
Fly, I doubt you want to compare "tentatives" as you and I both know which group on the property will have given up the most, whether you consider the total give back as a "%" or a gross dollar amount. And that's not even counting how we will be disproportionately damaged by the cancellation of our pensions. Cry me a river Fly.
Fly said: "Put it this way, we will close the company. You know why? Because we have NOTHING to lose. How's that sound?"
It sounds like you'll be voting for a job action? My family will be financially and emotionally ready to lose my job tomorrow. I hope the families of ALL of my co-workers are similarly prepared. Strike away!
I didn't say it was just a 14% pay cut. I said it was 14% (maybe) AND some work rules. Please re-read my post. Yes, I did read your tentative. I have a copy of it on my hard drive along with AMFA's. I'm still waiting for ALPA's.
And don't act like you guys are the only ones who have given up work rules. Our contract was gutted the last time around, as was everyone elses'.
Fly said: "We have no doubt in our minds that ALPA would never support us, you guys only look out for yourselves anyway (think Summer of 2000!) "
Let me get this straight, Fly. Right now as your union is threatening to strike/CHAOS/sickout in the media in order to advance your cause, you're going to criticize ALPA for the summer of 2000? Your union is publically advocating an action that could shut down UAL, US Air, ATA, and Hawaiian and you're bashing the summer of 2000? UFB!! You're kidding, right?
"You post your tenative and I'll post mine...then we'll talk."
Fly, I doubt you want to compare "tentatives" as you and I both know which group on the property will have given up the most, whether you consider the total give back as a "%" or a gross dollar amount. And that's not even counting how we will be disproportionately damaged by the cancellation of our pensions. Cry me a river Fly.
Fly said: "Put it this way, we will close the company. You know why? Because we have NOTHING to lose. How's that sound?"
It sounds like you'll be voting for a job action? My family will be financially and emotionally ready to lose my job tomorrow. I hope the families of ALL of my co-workers are similarly prepared. Strike away!
lol.....you believe that? Most flight attendants have many marketable skills. In fact, flight attendants are more likely to find employment elsewhere the fastest. (If for no other reason then the fact they we are paid so low and we look better than the average mechanic!) 
For those who voted for Bush.......notice how many days after the election we got these TA's?
DRIVER: When ALPA takes paycuts, they still have money to feed their families with. So cry in your own river. UFD!!!
For those who voted for Bush.......notice how many days after the election we got these TA's?
DRIVER: When ALPA takes paycuts, they still have money to feed their families with. So cry in your own river. UFD!!!
mrfish3726
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2004
- 931
- 0
Fly,
Pilots are the least sympathetic to UAL management asking most members to sacrifice AGAIN for their inept management in the first place. It's easier to swallow a 16% pay cut when you’re already making a 6-figure salary than it is when you’re only making 35 to 40K a year.
It was no different on the USAIR threads, pilots think that a CSR would still be OK making $13 an hour down from $18 to $20 an hour. It was no wonder that the majority of pilots at USAIR voted to preserve some sort of 6-figure salary still. You will see the same at UniTED, the pilots will be the first to save their A$$'S in some form. And then management will think that all the other unions will fall in line with a pilot a deal. USAIR management expected that to, but looks like that is not happening.
I AM sympathetic to what UniTED is asking the average employee to give up to save the airline that THEY destroyed. Now maybe you can be a bit sympathetic as to why I resigned from UniTED before my furlough number came up. A job opportunity came up at F9 back home in DEN so I had to take that chance. I will never be sympathetic to the greed of the pilots ranks, and their thinking that others should sacrifice to go back and live on 1980's wages AGAIN. It is time that employees take a stand and let management know that ENOUGH is ENOUGH! If I was still at UniTED I'd be right in the thick of it, pushing for a strike vote by AMFA.
Hold your ground, you may be un-employed but at least you can walk away with dignity knowing that Tilton and the boyz will be looking for a new job to.
Pilots are the least sympathetic to UAL management asking most members to sacrifice AGAIN for their inept management in the first place. It's easier to swallow a 16% pay cut when you’re already making a 6-figure salary than it is when you’re only making 35 to 40K a year.
It was no different on the USAIR threads, pilots think that a CSR would still be OK making $13 an hour down from $18 to $20 an hour. It was no wonder that the majority of pilots at USAIR voted to preserve some sort of 6-figure salary still. You will see the same at UniTED, the pilots will be the first to save their A$$'S in some form. And then management will think that all the other unions will fall in line with a pilot a deal. USAIR management expected that to, but looks like that is not happening.
I AM sympathetic to what UniTED is asking the average employee to give up to save the airline that THEY destroyed. Now maybe you can be a bit sympathetic as to why I resigned from UniTED before my furlough number came up. A job opportunity came up at F9 back home in DEN so I had to take that chance. I will never be sympathetic to the greed of the pilots ranks, and their thinking that others should sacrifice to go back and live on 1980's wages AGAIN. It is time that employees take a stand and let management know that ENOUGH is ENOUGH! If I was still at UniTED I'd be right in the thick of it, pushing for a strike vote by AMFA.
Hold your ground, you may be un-employed but at least you can walk away with dignity knowing that Tilton and the boyz will be looking for a new job to.
- Thread Starter
- #38
I could make a "seattle" comment here, but won't. (mech loks vs. FA looks) It is true you can easily find a low paying job with no benefits. Hell, come to Atlanta and I will get you a job in the mid to upper 20's this week. You won't like the hours or benefits, but I will get you a job. (I'm a head hunter now that I have been furloughed.)
See Herk! You did it, so can we. Trust me, upper 20's, and those hours and benefits can NOT be worse than what United is asking us for.
(and I'm not based in Seattle!
)
(and I'm not based in Seattle!
)Fly said: "When ALPA takes paycuts, they still have money to feed their families with. So cry in your own river. UFD!!!"
I'm sorry. I guess I didn't understand when I made the personal, professional, and financial sacrifices to pursue my chosen profession I was supposed to also subsidize the salaries of those who earn less than me.
Fly, instead of bashing me, ALPA, or whoever else earns more than you, perhaps after you're done "burning this house down" you can make an educational, vocational, or professional investment in yourself so that an approximate 16% total pay cut isn't the difference between "feeding your family" and not "feeding your family" as you put it. I'm sure the unemployment benefits you will be receiving if your union has its way will cover some sort of retraining or perhaps a professional education like I pursued.
I'm sorry. I guess I didn't understand when I made the personal, professional, and financial sacrifices to pursue my chosen profession I was supposed to also subsidize the salaries of those who earn less than me.
Fly, instead of bashing me, ALPA, or whoever else earns more than you, perhaps after you're done "burning this house down" you can make an educational, vocational, or professional investment in yourself so that an approximate 16% total pay cut isn't the difference between "feeding your family" and not "feeding your family" as you put it. I'm sure the unemployment benefits you will be receiving if your union has its way will cover some sort of retraining or perhaps a professional education like I pursued.
Wow, you are turning into another 320Captain. I didn't say I had a problem with what pilots make. I have a problem with taking flight attendant wages into the "food stamp" category. BTW, with these new work rules, there are no days off to pursue other vocations.
Let's be honest here, ALPA membership has the most to lose....so we all know you guys will keep bendin' ova. AFA members have nothing to lose.....so we're keeping our legs together like our mama's told us to.
Let's be honest here, ALPA membership has the most to lose....so we all know you guys will keep bendin' ova. AFA members have nothing to lose.....so we're keeping our legs together like our mama's told us to.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH....YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING RIGHT???? Have you seen our F/A's lately....It's a dead heat on the model runway...f/a's vs mech's...LOLFly said:lol.....you believe that? Most flight attendants have many marketable skills. In fact, flight attendants are more likely to find employment elsewhere the fastest. (If for no other reason then the fact they we are paid so low and we look better than the average mechanic!)
For those who voted for Bush.......notice how many days after the election we got these TA's?
DRIVER: When ALPA takes paycuts, they still have money to feed their families with. So cry in your own river. UFD!!!
[post="201647"][/post]
UA might not be here right now had it not been for the pilots trying to "choke the golden goose", and then when they didn't get what they wanted, Summer of 2000, nuff said. See ya on the picket line........oh, I forgot. ALPA's won't help their union bro's and sis's until they get all their's first. As you said before, pilots don't have a marketable skill, since we won't see you on the picket line, see you in the unemployment line.ualdriver said:
ualdriver said:
one question ualdriver, ever in your life held a picket sign, taken a day off without pay, risked anything????......... i thought not
Fly,
Not to mention the M&R ‘Allocation Construct’ takes pay back to the 80’s and
benefits (fringe) back to the 60’s. The company is cunning as their ‘proposal’ is
mostly in ‘fringe’ as the public will only look at the pay cut and blow off the fringe.
If the AMFA membership votes this POS in, we better get ready for round 3 in
June/July as UAL will need just one more taste before BK exit.
Also, don’t be surprised when UAL files a Section 1114 in January/February
(Bye-Bye Retiree Medical)…
IMHO - UAL Services is destined to be spun off as a subsidiary of UAL Corp. initially, and then sold outright or in pieces.
So here is the conundrum!
A ) Vote this POS in and slowly get slaughtered anyway.
(with the hope of severance and unemployment)
B ) Vote this POS down, have the company impose whatever they want through
Da’Judge (initially), and slowly get slaughtered anyway.
(with the slight hope of some kind severance and unemployment)
C) Vote this POS down, Vote for strike and end it quickly.
(with no hope of severance and/or unemployment)
Who did we pi$$ off?
JMHO&PO...
Take Care,
B) UT
Not to mention the M&R ‘Allocation Construct’ takes pay back to the 80’s and
benefits (fringe) back to the 60’s. The company is cunning as their ‘proposal’ is
mostly in ‘fringe’ as the public will only look at the pay cut and blow off the fringe.
If the AMFA membership votes this POS in, we better get ready for round 3 in
June/July as UAL will need just one more taste before BK exit.
Also, don’t be surprised when UAL files a Section 1114 in January/February
(Bye-Bye Retiree Medical)…
IMHO - UAL Services is destined to be spun off as a subsidiary of UAL Corp. initially, and then sold outright or in pieces.
So here is the conundrum!
A ) Vote this POS in and slowly get slaughtered anyway.
(with the hope of severance and unemployment)
B ) Vote this POS down, have the company impose whatever they want through
Da’Judge (initially), and slowly get slaughtered anyway.
(with the slight hope of some kind severance and unemployment)
C) Vote this POS down, Vote for strike and end it quickly.
(with no hope of severance and/or unemployment)
Who did we pi$$ off?
JMHO&PO...
Take Care,
B) UT
