Air Methods Pilots Vote Yes!

[Butch Grafton]

The votes were counted today and the Air Methods Pilots voted to join the OPEIU union. There were 298 yes votes which equaled 55.1% of the eligible pilots.

Butch

 

[MagSeal]

wow, a landslide vote. but i guess a democracy is a democracy and the majority rules. (until of course, the minority takes a few karate lessons and comes back to kick butt)

I guess 44.9% of the guys had some concerns huh?

 

[Butch Grafton]

Actually this is a normal margin. Phi won by around 51% and they are now pushing 70% membership. Here at LSI we only have 15 pilots who are not members out of nearly 400. Basically, when the pilots who voted no, learn how the company really behaves during negotiations and then during the term of the contract, more and more pilots start to join. One of our managers angered so many pilots during our last negotiations we almost gave him an award for the best membership drive we ever had. 😉

Butch

 

[Blackmac]

JOE NEGATIVE OR MAGSEAL: When sitting in a production job (manufacturing) one does not comment on things one knows nothing about.

If you havn't noticed this was intended for people that fly for a living.

AME comments should be religated to the AME section.

P/E questions should be answered by P/E, not wannabees.

I first met Jack Pearson (Spud Islander) in 1952, one helluva an engineer.

 

[MagSeal]

sorry, but helicopter operations include ame's or haven't you known that?

And besides an open forum is just that , or didn't you know that too?

Glad you knew Jack, I didn't, but I knew some who did.

It's obvious to me, your opinion matters, but nobody elses does.

Do me a favour and #### off.

 

[rookie314]

can we keep the meaningless union drivel on justhelicopters.com :down: where it belongs.

 

[RDM]

Hey you two little darlings, ya you two, lets not start throwin stones again. B)

 

[Over-Talk]

Thanks RDM/Moderator. Well said, at the right time. Those posts were going beyond pleasant jocularities.

I'm sure the two characters involved will now suggest, "if you don't like it....don't read it!"
However, if the topic turns that ugly, they should keep it off this forum and swap insults via personal e-mail.

I always enjoy the individual posts by both those authors, but sometimes they just don't play well together.

Guys, please don't ####-off, or tell the other guy to do it. Your opinions are too good to lose.

The Association Vote page shows just how few pilots read this forum, let's not scare them (or potential members) away with posts like that.

If you disagree with this, or any other post, please express your feelings in a way that you would like to be spoken too. Is that too much to ask ???

 

[twotter]

AME comments should be religated to the AME section.

I'm sorry, I know I do not contribute to this section very often, but this comment is way out of line... Are we AME's relegated to the back of the bus?? Do we deserve to be trashed by fools??

I'm glad the moderator stepped in or it may have got ugly. Nice to know your opinion of engineers though blackmac...

 

[cyclic monkey]

Blackmac, I am interested by your remark....
"If you havn't noticed this was intended for people that fly for a living."

Do you fly for a living? If not, how long has it been since you did??

If you don't fly for a living, why should your opinion be any more acceptable than that of a person that works on helicopters everyday (i.e. an AME) ????
What is this, fascism or a forum???

Hopefully there's room here for the thoughts of active pilots and AMEs, as well as retired pilots and AMEs.

Let's try to keep clean, pleasant, informed and/or humourous remarks the norm here.

 

[Batfink]

And we wonder why we can't organize....

Very sad indeed!

 

[Blackbeard]

The issue of an association or union is always very emotional, and I can understand where Blackmac is coming from.
Everytime the subject is mentioned there are the naysayers who jump in with negative and sarcastic comments. Until Blackmac's comment, I had not seen any of the supporters of an association slamming those who were opposed.
You may not have been right Blackmac, but I feel the frustration too. :angry:
To those of you who are opposed to an asociation, you have a right to your opinion, as you also have the right to refuse to join any organisation. Your choice. :down:
However, realise those of us who are supporters are not trying to take anything away from you, we are merely trying to improve the overall lot of the industry.
If you look at the Canadian Helicopter Pilots Association poll on this forum, you will see that almost 90% of respondents are in favour of further investigation towards an association - we're not talking union here guys - yet. So, either 90% of members of this forum are in favour, or those who are opposed do not bother to add their vote to the poll. Given the usual vehement negative rhetoric from those against, I would hazard that it is the former, and the vast majority of readers are interested in an association which has the best interests of ALL helicopter crews at heart.

 

[MagSeal]

any pilot can try and start an association should he or she feel there is a need.

Should a union become the result, it not only affects those that voted for one, but also drags in those who are opposed. Once there is a majority vote, the non union supporters are now union as well and now must follow the lead from their pro union counterparts. Thank goodeness for voting on everything after that, but you can see how a small percentage difference of people can have a huge impact on the others lives as well (example 51% yes, 49% no). A 5% raise to some might be good, but may bump someone into a higher tax bracket and thus be a net loss for them in the end.

As for engineers being affected by pilots creating a union? Damn right they will be affected. Firstly, concessions made by employers to cover the new higher wages, may be taken from one pocket to fill the other. As well, when the pilots go on strike to get what they want, it would dictate the aircraft are now grounded and the engineers livelihood is now taken from them. It affects us, and I will stand my ground, ask questions when questions arise, pressure those when pressure needs to be applied. How could you allow someone who crumbles at the first sign of opposing pressure to be the leader of your pact? If they can't stand the heat how would they handle negotiations?

 

[Blackbeard]

Dear Magseal,
A democracy is a democracy, and for your information the Canadian Government regulary gets elected with less than 50% of the eligible vote. This institution has a major impact on all our lives. Yet we still call it a democracy.
You will not find a more true democracy than voting for a union. At least it requires more than 50% of all eligble voters. For those who do not like the ideaology of democracy there are places in Africa and the Middle East - MSS is waiting I believe.
Your thoughts wage increases are intriguing. By your way of thinking there should be no pay increases so we can avoid paying more tax. Therefore everyone should be earning a wage equivalent to that of 20, 50 or even 100 years ago.
You may not be aware that the Canadian CPI (Consumer Price Index) is forecasted to rise by 2.8% this fiscal year. Therefore, merely to stay even we all need pay increases of close to 3%.
If you want more justification as to why some of us feel an association is necessary then check out "Southof the border's' latest post about looking for a contract lawyer. Perhaps you also missed the 'CHC Shaft' thread that was very active recently.
All that being said your comments and opinion are welcome. There is always room for debate in any subject, and all view points should be aired.

 

[HeloTeacher]

Given my past experience with the unions, they tend to cost me more than they have achieved. While I do intend to send my dues to Butch upon return to Canada, I am doing it to suport the association of the PHPA, not unionization of the Canadian helicopter industry. A forum for both pilots and engineers to exchange corporate knowledge, culture, and timely information will be an enormous asset to all of us.

Remember, for every unscrupulous operator out there we have more than a few pilots who refuse to lift an extra finger or expend a moments thought on trying to do a little extra to get the job done more efficiently or just plain better than the competition. I'm disappointed that lately I hear 'that's not my job' a lot more often from younger pilots when the old-timers recognize that, yes, it is our job.

I will also continue to watch with care what happens south of the border in the unionized operations to see what the long term results are. Again, past experience has shown me too many incompetents who hide behind their 'brotherhood' to stay employed when they shouldn't be.

I hope that they can achieve good results without bringing in all that can go wrong with a unionized operation, and as long as they do I will support them. The opposite will also be true.