Aircraft Maint Attrition

[MERV]

Tell me, how would calculate a mid level or level manager or executive productivity?

If talking about Executive/ VP's productivity only way can calculate is when company makes a profit before than investor are loosing their money on him/her!!!!!

 

[FWAAA]

Yea they do because we don't have A/C MX in those cities so usually FBO,MRO or Service contractor gives us that service!!!!!!! They do same here in JFK swissport and many other contractor handle A/C MX for those international carriers!!!! We do servicing many non alliance members at JFK when need it!!!!!!

Merv, I think that Chuck was talking about places where AA does have its own maintenance employees like LHR, GRU and EZE. Maybe even SCL. A couple years ago, there was a debate here about whether those AA employees (in other countries) were outsourced or not. AA's position is that an AA employee (no matter where in the world) is not outsourced maintenance while some TWU members here argued that only TWU-dues-paying mechanics on USA soil were "in-house." A couple of mechanics went on and on over the number of A checks and other routine, scheduled maintenance performed in London and S America on airplanes that sit all day or all night (due to unique scheduling demands). Daytime departures to LHR mean the airplane sits until the next day and most departures to Deep S America sit all day as they are night-time departures both directions.

 

[MERV]

AA has an employee productivity dilemna, but it doesn't look like AA thinks that about the TWU.

AA's propaganda site, www.aanegotiations.com places a lot of emphasis on productivity of pilots and FAs and discusses the need to increase productivity among those groups. On the TWU sections, there is no mention of any need to increase productivity among the mechanics or ramp.

Bob Owens has no doubt heard the word "productivity" in his negotiations with AA, but my guess is that that word was really more applicable to the pilots and the FAs. AA has already increased mechanic and ramp productivity by furloughs (ramp, primarily) and not replacing the attrition (both ramp and mechanics).

We as employees should be united because management sticks together!!!!!! We start pointing finger at others we will loss!!!!! FA's can only be more productive if they start selling food they carry on broad the plane and MX can be more productive if AA start servicing other airlines!!!! Thats the only way we will be more productive because we are bring in new revenue!!!!!! Beside that we are all productive because we all provide a service thats need for the airline to function!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

We as employees should be united because management sticks together!!!!!! We start pointing finger at others we will loss!!!!! FA's can only be more productive if they start selling food they carry on broad the plane and MX can be more productive if AA start servicing other airlines!!!! Thats the only way we will be more productive because we are bring in new revenue!!!!!! Beside that we are all productive because we all provide a service thats need for the airline to function!!!!!!!!

Agreed.

Maybe its the thin stale dry air but I know after a couple of hours stuck in an aircraft cabin I'm tired, I dont think that the company should think that they should be able to have crew members fly all these long legged flights without adequate rest.

 

[FWAAA]

We as employees should be united because management sticks together!!!!!! We start pointing finger at others we will loss!!!!! FA's can only be more productive if they start selling food they carry on broad the plane and MX can be more productive if AA start servicing other airlines!!!! Thats the only way we will be more productive because we are bring in new revenue!!!!!! Beside that we are all productive because we all provide a service thats need for the airline to function!!!!!!!!

AA's issue with flight attendant productivity is the fact that AA FAs fly, on average, a mere 59 hours per month but are paid, on average, for 76 hours per month. APFA's contract provides for a substantially lower maximum schedule per month. THAT's the productivity issue with FAs. It's not about selling more stuff. AA would like to increase the average monthly hours FAs fly.

WN FAs are the highest paid in the industry but AA's FAs are the most expensive FAs per hour of flight. Fix that and FA pay will go up. Same thing with APA.

 

[TWU informer]

AA's issue with flight attendant productivity is the fact that AA FAs fly, on average, a mere 59 hours per month but are paid, on average, for 76 hours per month. APFA's contract provides for a substantially lower maximum schedule per month. THAT's the productivity issue with FAs. It's not about selling more stuff. AA would like to increase the average monthly hours FAs fly.

WN FAs are the highest paid in the industry but AA's FAs are the most expensive FAs per hour of flight. Fix that and FA pay will go up. Same thing with APA.

Although Management hangs around at AA for about 50 hours per week, they only make relevant decisions or have meaningful discussion that might lead to a decision for a mere 5 to 7 hours per week.

We should demand to have them submit their actual decisions for review to Headquarters, and only pay them for their "productive" time? Most of them in Tulsa are so inept they have recruited via the working together boot licking scheme a TWU counter part to help make the decisions and divert accountability for failure. This is driving up the cost associated with decision making and making discussion extra lengthy.

I would like see the Planners, Engineers, Supervisors, and Managers increase their average relevant time also. I say we start paying management what they earn instead of what pay grade level they have achieved.

In other words, the Unionized Work Force sure as hell ins't the only drag on the bottom line. When management worker and union worker productivity to gain any form of revenue is compared, it is not even close.

 

[jersey777]

AA's issue with flight attendant productivity is the fact that AA FAs fly, on average, a mere 59 hours per month but are paid, on average, for 76 hours per month. APFA's contract provides for a substantially lower maximum schedule per month. THAT's the productivity issue with FAs. It's not about selling more stuff. AA would like to increase the average monthly hours FAs fly.

WN FAs are the highest paid in the industry but AA's FAs are the most expensive FAs per hour of flight. Fix that and FA pay will go up. Same thing with APA.

This a glaring example of the company manipulating and spinning the numbers. If I take the company's facts as true (which I do not), then basically we are paid 17 hrs extra per month then what we ACTUALLY fly. (This would be around 3 days of flying per month). If you look at the devil in the details, they include sick AND vacation time into what we are PAID on a monthly basis. AND, they are including reserves in these figures because their tables show a total of 17336 f/a in total.


To put this in laymans terms, an employee who is on salary to work 52 weeks a year yet gets 3 weeks vacation and has 6 sick days and 3 personal days and gets holidays off with pay ACTUALLY only works around 47 weeks but gets paid for 52 weeks. Now how unproductive is that!!

 

[eolesen]

Tell me, how would calculate a mid level or level manager or executive productivity?

Lots of different metrics were used, depending on the position. Airport managers were measured based on locally controllable performance measures, and in the non-operational positions, it was mostly tied to holding to a business plan and meeting a budget. Management was on a zero-based budgeting methodology in most departments, so each manager, MD, and VP would have to justify each head and dollar budgeted for the following year.

Non-operational headcount being the easiest to slash, there wasn't nearly as much featherbedding as I see with non-airlines I've done consulting for. If anything, AA was (and still is) understaffed below the MD level. The opinion was that most management positions are paid by the month, not the hour. We didn't get vacations -- we simply had days not in the office. Responsibility typically followed the person whether or not they were onsite. It didn't matter if I was onsite, at home, at the beach or in the mountains. When something went wrong, we were expected to respond.

During every budget cycle, I'd come up with a business plan for the following year, showing what was planned, and a savings target or other measurable return for each item on it. At the end of the year, I was evaluated on whether or not those targets were met.

As for productivity, using standard project management principles makes it pretty easy to track where the effort is, and where we were blowing the target... Every time we discussed reducing headcount, it was a simple matter of identifying what work would be deferred and the cost savings which wouldn't be realized. Not exactly rocket science, but entirely quantifiable.

Above the MD level, it's a lot more subjective. You're not doing the work -- you're making sure the work is done, and also making sure the strategy from above is being applied, and as the sands underneath shift, that the strategy is adjusted accordingly.

I know a lot of you have no respect for people who simply have to think as opposed to punching a work card, but it's a lot like the military -- you need grunts, planners, and strategists. Not every one of them will be given the same rank and privilege, and not every one of them is going to face enemy fire.

 

[Hopeful]

I know a lot of you have no respect for people who simply have to think as opposed to punching a work card, but it's a lot like the military -- you need grunts, planners, and strategists. Not every one of them will be given the same rank and privilege, and not every one of them is going to face enemy fire.

Takes all kinds to make the world go around. But as we have been seeing the past several years what is going on in this country is the lack of respect for the common worker. Being constantly reminded how lucky we are to have jobs while those at the top continue to share in outrageous payouts because that is "their agreement." Meanwhile, they refuse to bargain in good faith with "our agreements."

 

[eolesen]

Hopeful, I'm afraid it goes beyond the common worker. There's just an overall lack of respect for others. Just look at how kids are in schools, how their parents respond to their kids' actions, how people drive or behave in stores...

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful, I'm afraid it goes beyond the common worker. There's just an overall lack of respect for others. Just look at how kids are in schools, how their parents respond to their kids' actions, how people drive or behave in stores...

Personally, I have never, nor do I now , belittle or envy anyone in the working world with respect to their occupation. The world needs janitors as much as they do doctors.
Those of us mechanics in this industry have watched our livelihoods detiorate since deregulation. And yes, many airline employees in other classifications have dealt with the same fate.
But when mechanics negotiate, there are many aspects and metrics throughout the organization on the table. There are line mechanics, overhaul mechanics, structures, avionics, powerplant, specialized and specific shops/ component overhaul, etc, etc. And everytime negotiations come and go, more and more work is lost because of the "competitive" industry we are in.
Management, (and when I refer to and criticize management, I mean the upper crust, not supervisors and manager levels,) like to remind us how lucky we are to have jobs and still have pensions while, as we speak, they want to end our pension plan and retiree medical.
Outsourcing is the fad right now strictly because of costs. And there are those of you who believe a mechanic in Mexico, central america or south america is as qualified as a US mechanic.
I disagree with that, especially since many of them do not read and write English. Yet the maintenance manuals are in English. Is security like it is here? I doubt they have to whip out their PA id card and swap in and out all day to move around the airport. As is it is now, I see an FAA inspector a couple times a year. How many inspectors are assigned to these foreign facilities?

The bottom line is, the airlines are looking to cut costs at any expense and the quickest and easiest way is to go after the mechanic especially because maintenence is an expensive program. As for attrition, don't worry, the airlines have spent the last three decades attacking us (and I mean all mechanics at all carriers) at every front by outsourcing, corner cutting and massive concessions. All in the name of profits. They have mainly used the bankruptcy courts to abbrogate labor agreements and at same time ask for increases in executive compensation in order to
"maintain the key players in our executive ranks to see us through the tumultuous times and we don't want them to take their talents to other airlines, blah blah blah"

They have created the shortages of mechanics that will be felt more as time goes on. And instead of using the "MARKET" to offset the shortage and lure qualified mechanics, airlines will not do what they do to get and retain executives, they will petition the government to eliminate the aircraft mechanic into extinction.