ALPA will file objection to pension termination

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chipmunn

Guest
Tomorrow ALPA will file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court objecting to US Airways' request to distress terminate the pilot defined benefit retirement plan.
The company's motion and ALPA's objection will be heard by Judge Mitchell on Thursday, February 20.
Chip
 

fatherabraham

Veteran
Sep 27, 2002
814
354
Chip,

If a "take it or leave" demand over the current dc offer was placed before you would you accept or seek self help?
Do you have any insight you are willing to divulge as to the majority opinion to this question?
 

usfliboi

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,070
270
Doesnt look good for alpa. To quote chip, This judge has agreed with managements every request. !
 
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chipmunn

Guest
Fatherabraham:

Fatherabraham asked: If a "take it or leave" demand over the current dc offer was placed before you would you accept or seek self help?

Chip answers: Fatherabraham, at this point I cannot answer your question because management has not provided a DC plan with details, only generalities. I'm a poor person to ask because I have options such as an international verbal job offer that pays more than US, but with no retirement and I would have to live outside of the United States. In addition, I have a military retirement, IRA, 401(k), investments, social security, and my wife's social security and investments as retirement income. Before I would make a decision, I would need to see the particulars and decide what is best for ALPA, my colleagues, and my family.

Fatherabraham asked: Do you have any insight you are willing to divulge as to the majority opinion to this question?

Chip answers: This is a good question and one I'm trying to gage. The MEC has activated the Strike Preparedness Committee, ALPA is about to release a report that will be damaging to management's chances of “winning overâ€￾ the pilot group, and there is a group of pilots who will never get close to management's reported financial targets. For example, former Shuttle pilots will have a social security offset to the PBGC award and will never have the time to make a DC plan provide significant retirement income.

I suspect we would likely end up with a 50-50 split when it comes down to a vote and like the last CWA vote, this ALPA vote would to close to call; therefore, we could very well end up with a pilot strike.

What’s interesting to me is the number of management pilots, e.g. Check Airman, who no longer support management and email me that they prefer a strike. This shows a definite sentiment change from those pilots who would be most considered “company pilotsâ€￾.

ALPA is evaluating a number of options and it appears we are headed for a corporate train wreck, which is unfortunate considering all of the employee sacrifice. In my opinion, Judge Mitchell will rule in favor of the company, then ALPA will have to make a decision on whether or not to strike, where the vote will be very close.

Regardless, virtually every pilot believes it is unfair for 4,000 pilots to take a fourth concession, when every other employee has made only two concessions.

Chip
 
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chipmunn

Guest
PineyBob:

PineyBob said: perhaps that's why some folks aren't real sympathetic.

Chip answers: PineyBob, the pilot group is not asking for sympathy. This is our fight and we will do what is necessary; therefore, as Sabre suggested it may not be necessary that "all unions must eventually support ALPA." In addition, in my opinion the majority of the pilot group does not believe in socialism.

Chip
 

usfliboi

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,070
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Im amazed here i really am. Speechless. Chip where are your speeches????? The speeches you gave every other employee about looking at the alternative and leaving if it doesnt work for you. I wanna see the old chip when he was encouraging us all to to what it took. None of us likes the situation that we are in but this isnt the time to try an torpedo all of our work. There will be another time to fight when we all can afford to fight. This isnt one of those times. The battles are being lost the war will come 5 yrs from now when the company makes record profits and employees arent happy!
 

cubfan02us

Member
Sep 10, 2002
93
0
No doubt ALPA has to do everything in their power to avoid the termination of
the pension.All of the unions resources
will be brought to bear on this.The pilot's knew this was an option the company was looking at,hence the confidentiality agreement that was put in place.I don't have a clue really but on the face of it,Siegel and his execs bushwacked ALPA.

One other thing that is part of this issue
is our competition.Delta,CAL,NW,and AMR
are just hopin' that this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.Pilot's
are in a tough spot here,but only they can
get through it.

Good luck...
 

Hope777

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
2,053
490
www.usaviation.com
What goes around comes around. Chip, like you have said in the past, don't look for any help from the Judge. Sorry! Your group didn't complain when they sat home on their A$$E$ and got paid, did they?
 

diogenes

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
2,515
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[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 12:14:55 PM chipmunn wrote:

PineyBob:

PineyBob said: perhaps that's why some folks aren't real sympathetic.

Chip answers: PineyBob, the pilot group is not asking for sympathy. This is our fight and we will do what is necessary; therefore, as Sabre suggested it may not be necessary that "all unions must eventually support ALPA." In addition, in my opinion the majority of the pilot group does not believe in socialism.

Chip


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[/blockquote]
-------------------------------------------

Chip,

That 'go it alone attitude' is what's got ALPA where it is today. You'd think you'd get it by now. You're hired help! Better renumerated, more skilled, harder to replace, yes. Still hired help. Hey, you don't have to listen to me - do a careful analysis of your group's relations with managment,and see what your conclusion is.

Has anyone ever looked at the labor history of this country? The trade union vs. craft has been fought many times before, and the crafts always lose. It may take years, but eventually their contract ties them to an obsolete craft, or the work gets outsourced. Sound familiar?

Chip, you keep on the socialism kick like a broken record.

When our pension was frozen, what was that - Marie Antoinette syndrome, or just good ol' dog-eat-dog capitalism? The truth is, it'd be foolish,as well as incorrect, for agents to blame any work group for the pension freeze - the blame resides with managment. Same deal here - your brief is with managment.

Socialism, as you are using it, indicates you are subsidizing me. Kindly point out where, clarify yourself, or retract your remark. I am unaware of a single dime migrating from your pocket to mine.

As we live in a captialist society, I am content to let the market set the rates.

When will WN's rates get calculated into our next parity review?

 
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chipmunn

Guest
The MEC is going to fight the company on this issue and there is going to be much, much more noise over the company's effort to terminate only the pilots pension plan, in this socialized wage and benefit system.

As I've said countless times before, I have prepared for the worst and I believe each employee should do the same thing.

Chip
 
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BottomFeeder

Guest
Tell me Chip, will it put hair on your chest to force the termination of your co-workers who have projected pensions of $15K annually?
****************************************

mlt( Robinhood )


I was going to respond, but your a waste of time.
 

mlt

Senior
Dec 2, 2002
291
0
www.usaviation.com
Chip,
In the above post: The MEC is going to fight the company on this issue and there is going to be much, much more noise over the company's effort to terminate only the pilots pension plan, in this socialized wage and benefit system.

Tell me Chip, will it put hair on your chest to force the termination of your co-workers who have projected pensions of $15K annually? What's next..mugging the elderly for their social security checks?
 

savyinvestor

Senior
Jan 15, 2003
494
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/6/2003 3:35:52 PM mlt wrote:

Chip,
In the above post: The MEC is going to fight the company on this issue and there is going to be much, much more noise over the company's effort to terminate only the pilots pension plan, in this socialized wage and benefit system.

Tell me Chip, will it put hair on your chest to force the termination of your co-workers who have projected pensions of $15K annually? What's next..mugging the elderly for their social security checks?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Mlt, It looks like Munn as done a 180 . Doesn't sound anything like the guy that use to brow beat the CWA folks into submission. Where is Linji when you need him? Savy
 

mlt

Senior
Dec 2, 2002
291
0
www.usaviation.com
Savy,
You are absolutely right. Chip's rationale is similar to the person in the neighborhood who has the biggest house. Suddenly one day this person is unable to pay the mortgage and the only acceptable solution to this individual is every house in the neighborhood must also go to sheriff's sale. Chip is forgetting that ALPA's deficit is 70% of the problem.

The funny thing is many of us have offered an olive branch. We have stated repeatedly that we support ALPA's attempts to maintain their pension. In the likely event they are unsuccessful, what does it accomplish to demand the company take the pensions of others? Does it make the sun shine brighter knowing future retirees will qualify for food stamps?

Sign Me...

Robinhood,
formerly known as MLT
 

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