America’s economy risks mother of all meltdowns

[local 12 proud]

The U.S, is in to deep with NAFTA. They will not dismantle it, for the simple reason(s)

1.) Oil, Titanium, Minerals etc.., are no longer resident with in the U.S. , and have to imported
2.) There will come a time though, when OIL will go to $300/brl within the next 5 years. That will, then decase the importing of stuff from the far reaches of the earth. Things will then be come more decentralized, and more local. The price of OIL, which "initally" allowed economies to humm, populations to increase, will soon come to a screatching hault. NAFTA, WTO, will then implode on it' own- The time to power-down, will have arrived, during Peak Oil, which has already transpired- Demand already exceeds production, and it will get worse............

Learn how to fish and hunt....

A country boy can survive!

 

[American Air Surf]

Learn how to fish and hunt....

A country boy can survive!

When people leave the cities, the country is going to get crowded. Be afraid, be very afraid....

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n1.36ccf4f.html

http://www.energybulletin.net/3161.html

http://www.energyfiles.com/presentationfil...Apr%202007).pdf


This is a calamity in the making, and one that will change your(s) mine, and mankind as a whole. My investments "Energy" are doing very well in the current upheavel on Wall St. Becasue I simply learned and payed attention to this problem some (4) years ago. I actually stumbled upon it quite by accident, after reading an article in Barron's. Add this "problem" to our "other" problems in the current Economic environment, and I fear catastrophy. It is a different place, a different time, different circumstances, a different "debtor" nation (U.S.) ill equipped to face this mounting apocalypse. We face resource wars, of epic proportions...... 🙁

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Learn how to fish and hunt....

A country boy can survive!

##################################################################

Hey......"12",

Like I told you before,...."I'm gettin' the F*** out of here"(usa) SOON ! (Northern Alberta,Canada)(plenty of OIL/Natural gas/hydro-electric/Timber,to last for my lifetime, for CANADIAN citizens,.....(I'll be one SOON) !!

Hey, I got a good Idea....(of course it will depend on when you can LEAVE OKIE-HOMA for good)

We can meet once a month on the BORDER.
You can drive in on AK rt. 2,(from FAI) and I'll be on YK rt. #1(from Whitehorse).
We can "flip" each time for the $ check, or take turns,.......It will be Up to you.
I'll need to drive "over" anyway, to pick up my $$ checks, on the US side of the border(Mail boxes etc.)

 

[local 12 proud]

##################################################################

Hey......"12",

Like I told you before,...."I'm gettin' the F*** out of here"(usa) SOON ! (Northern Alberta,Canada)(plenty of OIL/Natural gas/hydro-electric/Timber,to last for my lifetime, for CANADIAN citizens,.....(I'll be one SOON) !!

Hey, I got a good Idea....(of course it will depend on when you can LEAVE OKIE-HOMA for good)

We can meet once a month on the BORDER.
You can drive in on AK rt. 2,(from FAI) and I'll be on YK rt. #1(from Whitehorse).
We can "flip" each time for the $ check, or take turns,.......It will be Up to you.
I'll need to drive "over" anyway, to pick up my $$ checks, on the US side of the border(Mail boxes etc.)

Bears... I'll shoot, Gut, and skin it...hope your a good chef!

BTW...Stock that fridge with good Canadian Ale!!!

I get thirsty after a BIG Hunt... 😉

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Bears... I'll shoot, Gut, and skin it...hope your a good chef!

BTW...Stock that fridge with good Canadian Ale!!!

I get thirsty after a BIG Hunt... 😉

##################################################################

Good chef,............HEL*, all I'll need is the "magic 7",

1. a bottle of Good GINNY Red Wine,
2. GARLIC,
3. ONIONS
4. (good GINNY) Olive Oil,
5. A lil' BASIL,
6. Salt
7. Pepper(black),...Hot Cherry Peppers(better than those crappy Halepenos),

and a "broke in frying pan", then I could saute your BOOTS, and put a smile on your kisser !!!!

(Might have a "small problem" on the "DISCHARGE" though) 🙄 :unsure: :unsure:

And as you say(for you) plenty of Molson's....(Diet Pepsi for me) !!

 

[American Air Surf]

Do some research on the Hawley-Smoot tariff. Getting rid of NAFTA would essentially put the US in the same boat as that tariff did. International economic revenge at its best.

NAFTA's legacy: the worst agreement we ever signed (CANADA)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...tory/Front/home

Not quite like Hawley-Smoot Tariff, is it ?

 

[American Air Surf]

Do some research on the Hawley-Smoot tariff. Getting rid of NAFTA would essentially put the US in the same boat as that tariff did. International economic revenge at its best.

NAFTA's legacy: the worst agreement we ever signed (CANADA)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...tory/Front/home

Not quite like Hawley-Smoot Tariff, is it?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

NAFTA's legacy: the worst agreement we ever signed (CANADA)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...tory/Front/home

Not quite like Hawley-Smoot Tariff, is it?

Did you post it twice for emphasis? As easily as you can post an opinion article saying it is bad, I can post one that says it is good. Obviously it is NOTHING like the Hawley-Smoot Tariff. But getting RID of NAFTA is like the Tariff. It would essentially create the same problems that the Hawley-Smoot Tariff did! Moreover, the economic circumstances are virtually identical. The Hawley-Smoot Tariff is considered to be one of the major factors that prolonged the great depression. Getting rid of NAFTA, would do the same. As I said, global revenge at its best.

 

[High Iron]

Did you post it twice for emphasis? As easily as you can post an opinion article saying it is bad, I can post one that says it is good. Obviously it is NOTHING like the Hawley-Smoot Tariff. But getting RID of NAFTA is like the Tariff. It would essentially create the same problems that the Hawley-Smoot Tariff did! Moreover, the economic circumstances are virtually identical. The Hawley-Smoot Tariff is considered to be one of the major factors that prolonged the great depression. Getting rid of NAFTA, would do the same. As I said, global revenge at its best.

Don't be so dramatic. Why is it you ultra-trade zealots can't discuss the issue without putting up the all-or-nothing isolationism/building walls around the US finger wagging strawman argument?

Nafta never was about helping the average Mexican and average US citizen through some symbiotic arrangement where a new Mexican middle class would be hungry to purchase US goods. Hell, even cynical to the bone me fell for that BS when the agreement was in its formative stages. It was about free movement of cheaply produced US branded goods sold in the US at 1st-world prices. A nice fat bottom line at that. Given the rather corrupt Mexican two-class system, and a malleable populace that bends to the whims of multinational companies/lobbyists, it was fertile ground. All that Ricardian "comparative advantage" horseshit works so well in theory but so lousy in practice as the whole process is corrupted by a maze of externalities ivory-tower Ricardian/Austrian disciple economists never figure on. Lax environmental and safety standards being just a few. The US chamber of commerce would never have a level playing field with the 3rd world ( that is, unless that jackass Donahue can get US wages to match Mexico's...and given his stance on immigration he's well along on that goal ) as that "comparative advantage" would be eroded. A bunch of slimy pit vipers.

But lets look at concrete results. Pre-Nafta, the US enjoyed a ( modest ) trade surplus with Mexico, now it's a burgeoning trade deficit. Life wasn't exactly a living hell ( on main st or wall st ) pre-Nafta either. Hasn't done much if anything for the proles of Mexico, as evidenced by the absolute infestation of illegal immigrants in the US.

"In the long run, it'll all work out" economists like to surmise. "In the long run, we're all dead" Keynes astutely noted. In the short run, the fat-cats make out like bandits. Don't kid yourself; if they weren't, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and you damned well know it. Any suggestions of social altruism from those maggots are truly laughable.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Don't be so dramatic. Why is it you ultra-trade zealots can't discuss the issue without putting up the all-or-nothing isolationism/building walls around the US finger wagging strawman argument?

Nafta never was about helping the average Mexican and average US citizen through some symbiotic arrangement where a new Mexican middle class would be hungry to purchase US goods. Hell, even cynical to the bone me fell for that BS when the agreement was in its formative stages. It was about free movement of cheaply produced US branded goods sold in the US at 1st-world prices. A nice fat bottom line at that. Given the rather corrupt Mexican two-class system, and a malleable populace that bends to the whims of multinational companies/lobbyists, it was fertile ground. All that Ricardian "comparative advantage" horseshit works so well in theory but so lousy in practice as the whole process is corrupted by a maze of externalities ivory-tower Ricardian/Austrian disciple economists never figure on. Lax environmental and safety standards being just a few. The US chamber of commerce would never have a level playing field with the 3rd world ( that is, unless that jackass Donahue can get US wages to match Mexico's...and given his stance on immigration he's well along on that goal ) as that "comparative advantage" would be eroded. A bunch of slimy pit vipers.

But lets look at concrete results. Pre-Nafta, the US enjoyed a ( modest ) trade surplus with Mexico, now it's a burgeoning trade deficit. Life wasn't exactly a living hell ( on main st or wall st ) pre-Nafta either. Hasn't done much if anything for the proles of Mexico, as evidenced by the absolute infestation of illegal immigrants in the US.

"In the long run, it'll all work out" economists like to surmise. "In the long run, we're all dead" Keynes astutely noted. In the short run, the fat-cats make out like bandits. Don't kid yourself; if they weren't, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and you damned well know it. Any suggestions of social altruism from those maggots are truly laughable.

Thanks for the thought-out response. Where exactly did you get all-or-nothing from my previous post? By the way, I am not suggesting NAFTA is not without problems. It has many... but they are minor compared to the problems that will be created by reneging on NAFTA. I never believed that it was about helping the average US citizen through some arrangement where mexicans would be hungry to purchase US goods. That argument NEVER passed the smell test. It was ALWAYS backed by big business.

While there are problems in comparative advantage, particularly in regards to externalities, the theory still holds water. Externalities pokes holes in all theories (it is impossible to account for every possibility). Also, what some may call an externality, is not really an externality if it effects the efficiency of the model. Ricardo would have you factor in all matters that increase/decrease efficiency (e.g., under the table wages, etc.). Some externalities should be addressed and, perhaps, modifications can be made. But, to get rid of the accord would be detrimental.

Do you think that the trade deficit has anything to do with China and other asian countries? We lost trade surplus with other countries because we lost jobs to asian countries that produced widgets that we would have typically exported to Mexico and beyond. Now China exports to countries where we used to have a trade surplus.

NAFTA is the young virgin that many people want to throw into the volcano. Yet, many other countries have seen a decline in manufacturing jobs. People would be quite naive to believe that it has nothing to do with technological advances. When did NAFTA begin... when did the internet become a hit? Hmmmm.

 

[American Air Surf]

Thanks for the thought-out response. Where exactly did you get all-or-nothing from my previous post? By the way, I am not suggesting NAFTA is not without problems. It has many... but they are minor compared to the problems that will be created by reneging on NAFTA. I never believed that it was about helping the average US citizen through some arrangement where mexicans would be hungry to purchase US goods. That argument NEVER passed the smell test. It was ALWAYS backed by big business.

While there are problems in comparative advantage, particularly in regards to externalities, the theory still holds water. Externalities pokes holes in all theories (it is impossible to account for every possibility). Also, what some may call an externality, is not really an externality if it effects the efficiency of the model. Ricardo would have you factor in all matters that increase/decrease efficiency (e.g., under the table wages, etc.). Some externalities should be addressed and, perhaps, modifications can be made. But, to get rid of the accord would be detrimental.

Do you think that the trade deficit has anything to do with China and other asian countries? We lost trade surplus with other countries because we lost jobs to asian countries that produced widgets that we would have typically exported to Mexico and beyond. Now China exports to countries where we used to have a trade surplus.

NAFTA is the young virgin that many people want to throw into the volcano. Yet, many other countries have seen a decline in manufacturing jobs. People would be quite naive to believe that it has nothing to do with technological advances. When did NAFTA begin... when did the internet become a hit? Hmmmm.

As I have said in previous post(s)-- The precursor to NAFTA, was GATT. GATT was passed into law under U.S. President Harry S. Truman. So.., this (NAFTA) has been, in the mill for quite sometime.. check it out. It was created for the Globalists/Rich, desimation of Unions, and the working poor, and the ultimate dismantling of the U.S. - The idea, is to bring the U.S. (living standards) down to the rest of the worlds.

P.S. Sorry about the double posts, this site had a brain-fart.......

 

[American Air Surf]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My posting ANOTHER negative comment about our POTUS, will come as Nothing New to any of you here.

Having said that,

I honestly and Truly ..DO NOT think that enough people,...R E A L L Y / F U L L Y..understand how BAD that ..Friggin' IMBECILIC A$$ HOLE, has severely DAMAGED this country !!!

"Petrol" to be "4"...F-O-U-R..DOLLARS a gallon, this summer !

"Keep PULLING those.."R" levers...in the voting booth's Boys " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 9th Step of Mr. Roubini, is now transpiring- Re: Bear Stearns, and Others...

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

It is happening before your eyes, much more pain tocome !

 

[Gilding the Lily]

The 9th Step of Mr. Roubini, is now transpiring- Re: Bear Stearns, and Others...

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

It is happening before your eyes, much more pain tocome !

Looks like the House of Morgan will save Bear Stearns before it sinks.

House of Morgan.

 

[American Air Surf]

Looks like the House of Morgan will save Bear Stearns before it sinks.

House of Morgan.

Lilly- J.P. Morgan's investment in Bear Stearns, was probably a back door deal. Somewhat simular to Bank of America's purchase of Countrywide. The Fed's 28-day loan thru J.P. Morgan, to Stearns, was to allow time for the purchase by J.P. Morgan, and an orderly unwinding of positons. Unfortunately, Stearns isn't the only one on the hook, Lehmann Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, as well as Bank of America are all in the same boat. The Federal Reserve's action, in regard to Stearns, was initiated to avert the domino effect, from Stearns failure. The question is this- Can the Fed continue to bail out, the others as well? I feel the Fed, has crossed the line in regard to "Moral Hazard", in trying to prop up this house of cards, all the while sacrificing the dollar. The Fed's assumption, that institutions have grown to Big to Fail, and must be bailed out, AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE is a crock of unholy Sh**t. The man on the street can see his dollar buys less and less, THE more $$ the FED prints (INFLATION, inflating the money supply) to keep the U.S financial system from collapsing, the less it is worth, the less it buys. The FED is in no-mans land, a CATCH-22. Without going into all the specifics, he should "under this fiat" money system, let these firms fail, irregardless. Instead, he is more interested in saving the hedge funds, and his buddies on wall street, at the expense of everyone else.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

Irregardless, of the problems in the financial sector, housing, SS, Medicare, Medicaide, U.S. debt/defecit. all wrapped around our Peak Oil problem, their is a Perfect Storm brewing- Paul Volcker (former Fed Chairmen), knows this cannot continue, and a crisis is coming ... 🙁

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articl.../9/161923.shtml

As Jim Cramer, often says, watch out for the HOUSE OF PAIN. Because alot of people are going to loose their financial A*s ...

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I read an Article recently(business week or newsweek) that stated that our $ dollar is at the LOWEST rate EVER, compared to the other major currency's of the world !

If it stays this way, before 1/20/2009, EL-CHIMPO's (real) Legacy will NEVER be equaled.

"President Carter, we regret to inform you that your former record of being the WORST President(in modern times) has been Eclipsed by a Republican from TEX-A$$ " :wacko: