American admits that DAL flights probably won't make any money

[mrman]

Big difference between Shelby and Bond --- Shelby was lobbying for himself. Kit Bond wasn't.

The Dallas Morning News has allegedly been doing deplane counts, and I can't say if AMR has been doing them or not, but what I'm hearing is 20-30 peopler per departure on a good day. I don't think it will get better next week when there's twice the capacity in the market.

I would be very warry of departure counts as I suspect WN uses DAL as a through city for other WA cities. Suspect the plane still has people going to other cities that are not counted.

I flew to San Fran via Kansas City on a Texas 2 step last week. I know 1 flight is no indication but my Thursday night flight was packed to KC

 

[eolesen]

The observers were said to be watching the jetbridge door in DAL, so they have no idea if the customers are local or connecting. WN makes it really easy to observe that way -- buy a fully refundable ticket to get past security, and then refund it when you're done...

 

[mrman]

The observers were said to be watching the jetbridge door in DAL, so they have no idea if the customers are local or connecting. WN makes it really easy to observe that way -- buy a fully refundable ticket to get past security, and then refund it when you're done...

Unlike other airlines, most connecting passengers stay on the plane to continue on the same flight number because the turns are so quick. These passengers which in many cases could be half the plane would not be counted

 

[SharoninSAT]

Unlike other airlines, most connecting passengers stay on the plane to continue on the same flight number because the turns are so quick. These passengers which in many cases could be half the plane would not be counted

You're right...lots of new scheduling and WN is a point to point carrier

 

[eolesen]

You're right...lots of new scheduling and WN is a point to point carrier

I luv how all the WN defenders come out of the woodwork to defend WN's non-existant loads... Did either of you check the schedules before making your grand assumptions on why the DMN's reporting is flawed?

With the exception of WN157, which continues to SAT (the only one-stop in that market), none of the MCI-DAL flights operate thru DAL.

Likewise, from STL, only WN25 continues (to HOU, and it operates 15 minutes after a nonstop STLHOU flight).

In their mad rush to be in the market, WN didn't bother to wait for a normal schedule change, so these flights were not optimized. That could change with the next schedule, but it doesn't change the fact that the local markets sucks.

 

[Ch. 12]

I luv how all the WN defenders come out of the woodwork to defend WN's non-existant loads...

The difference is that WN's breakeven load is no more than 60% (hence still profiting on 63-67% LFs) while AA et al need 90%+ (many need over 100%). Comparing AA's and WN's loads on any service is not even apples to oranges...it's more like apples to Buicks.

 

[corl737]

I luv how all the WN defenders come out of the woodwork to defend WN's non-existant loads...

I couldn't access the numbers for the first two flight today since they've already departed. However, the last two flights today (Friday) between DAL and MCI reveal the following number of seats sold:

DAL->MCI
2331: 137
2447: 84

MCI->DAL
2328: 137
1492: 135

Utilizing 137-seat aircraft, the load factors compute to 80.7% DAL->MCI, and 99.3% MCI->DAL.

While this is strictly a "snapshot" look at a couple of flights on one day, I'd say characterizing this route as having "non-existant loads" is somewhat inaccurate, wouldn't you agree?

 

[jimntx]

Notice how he stressed 2 flights in the DAL-MCI market, but didn't mention any of their flights in the DAL-STL market. Wonder why?

Could it have anything to do with the banner article in the business section of yesterday's St. Louis Post-Dispatch? According to the article, AA's passengers increased 21% at STL last year over 2004. SWA's increased only 7%. And the number of passengers through Lambert for all airlines increased only 10%.

Percentage-wise, AA's overall STL market share increased from 31.4% in 2004 to 34.4% in 2005, and that does NOT include American Eagle and American Connection business. SWA's market share dropped from 23.6% to 22.9% from 2004 to 2005.

 

[corl737]

Notice how he stressed 2 flights in the DAL-MCI market, but didn't mention any of their flights in the DAL-STL market. Wonder why?

Because I had about 10 minutes time and that was all I looked at. Assume all you want about my "hidden agenda" because there wasn't one. You're making a strong case for proving the cliche about "assuming" to be true ... ( )

I congratulate AA for its increased passenger load in STL. SWA's was up too, though not as much as AAs. We BOTH had a good year and should BOTH enjoy the direction our companies are headed. I don't want to see AA fail because it has a good product for the people it caters to. Similarly, SWA has the product its customers want. I believe there's plenty of folks for both of us! (Now if we can just get those pesky non-Texas airlines to bow out of the fray...! )

 

[SharoninSAT]

:blink:

No profits? Whatta surprise.
Well, AA has to make its point - and spend a few million doing so.

(make its point?)why in the name of smart business would AA do that?...ego...not good business!!!

 

[Ch. 12]

The difference is that WN's breakeven load is no more than 60% (hence still profiting on 63-67% LFs) while AA et al need 90%+ (many need over 100%). Comparing AA's and WN's loads on any service is not even apples to oranges...it's more like apples to Buicks.

Hate to quote my own post but its a glaring reality that everybody outside of WN ignores during their rants. You can't compare a 60% WN LF to a 60% AA LF.

But then again...please continue to ignore this fact and pretend that WN is a sinking ship...

 

[USXboy]

If I were a stockholder with AA I'd be piping mad.... so instead of focusing on a profit (when was the last time AA posted one?) they're worried that WN may take all of 50 local passengers between DFW/STL?!?!?!?!?!

 

[coolflyingfool]

AA is now throwing $500,00 at a group to help keep the WA in place. The group is running an ad scaring people about the what-ifs of a crash in the area and its safety. AA says it will not edit the groups content of its ads. Why give the group money if it could only scare passengers away from an airport where AA already admits it will lose money? What is AA trying to do here? How much money are they really trying to lose? At least $500,00. just my thoughts..............

 

[MiAAmi]

If I were a stockholder with AA I'd be piping mad.... so instead of focusing on a profit (when was the last time AA posted one?) they're worried that WN may take all of 50 local passengers between DFW/STL?!?!?!?!?!

If you were a stockholder with AMR you would be very happy, the stock has increased in the past year from $10 a share to over $28 a share. Where as LUV stock has gone from $14 a share to just under $18. Hawaii is not a money maker either but if we didnt fly there you would hear a bigger uproar.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

AA is now throwing $500,00 at a group to help keep the WA in place. The group is running an ad scaring people about the what-ifs of a crash in the area and its safety. AA says it will not edit the groups content of its ads. Why give the group money if it could only scare passengers away from an airport where AA already admits it will lose money? What is AA trying to do here? How much money are they really trying to lose? At least $500,00. just my thoughts.

This is what AA does best. Piss money away then ask its employees for concessions. EGO bad management or both