American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Kev3188]

Are these two funds entirely different vehicles? The IAMPF Multi-Corporate and the Frozen Pension at LAA?

Yes.

The actuaries said red zone in less than 5 years. That was 2 years ago. Am I the only one who reads around here?

No, you're not.
FWIW, I think most people just take the "we're in the green!" flyer we all get as gospel.

Really bad that we didnt accept the company proposal before this. its really going to cost us.
The offer will now be less. I tell you guys but you dont listen.

I hope you're wrong, but am guessing you're right...

Not sure why Weez (or anyone, really) would dismiss even a $6m jump in "ask." That can be entire annual operating budget for a line station.

 

[Kev3188]

Even if we were to vote on that proposal it appears as it would be rejected .So lets say it its rejected how much worse would the nxt one be?

If you were to vote and reject the (hypothetical) offer that on the table now, and the next one was materially worse, the Association could make the claim that the company was negotiating in bad faith.

 

[robbedagain]

Good point kev. Given DP n gangsters track record it wldnt shock me but who knows

 

[WeAAsles]

The actuaries said red zone in less than 5 years. That was 2 years ago. Am I the only one who reads around here?
Really bad that we didnt accept the company proposal before this. its really going to cost us.
The offer will now be less. I tell you guys but you dont listen.

They make it any less and the vote goes from 80/20 to 90/10. And obviously engaging you again is still a useless act because it’s YOU who are not listening.

 

[Birdman]

The actuaries said red zone in less than 5 years. That was 2 years ago. Am I the only one who reads around here?
Really bad that we didnt accept the company proposal before this. its really going to cost us.
The offer will now be less. I tell you guys but you dont listen.

And how does a very generous "early out package" affect those projections as many of us left in 2013 with half of what is being offered now? I expect Parker, who previously outsourced exponentially higher at USAir, has plans to return to his roots of outsourcing and will hold out until he gets it. It could bite him if his plan goes awry as it did at WN when they were outbid on numerous lines of heavy maintenance by a competitor, 34 Max's were grounded, and maintenance was forced to ground aircraft to remain "compliant". Since Parker brought AMFA's contract wages into the mix you might as well go for the gold and demand our whole contract, including outsourcing. You'll have a superior contract and Parker will be smiling ear to ear.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Actually I’m not going to say particularly what until we have a full TA that we’re going to vote on but in the Fleet proposal from the Company I will say that there are things that I do like, things that I don’t like and things I could learn to live with and adjust to.

Some of those things I don’t particularly like have been agreed to by all parties.

When the deals are ready I’ll ask what their thoughts were in striking those deals and see if I can understand the reasoning. They’re still going to be listed in my no column but if the yes column outweighs the no column then I’ll agree to the deal. (My one vote)

to me, the only upgrade is 401k; everything else, from wages to scope is unacceptable. even the shift differential rates are less than passenger service.

2 years ago, we talked about late sweeteners. well, the company added some late sweeteners. a wage sweetener for AMTs and a $3k sweetener for lus assoc. members for surrendering their insurance.

where is/are the sweetener(s) for laa fsc??

 

[1986Mekanic]

to me, the only upgrade is 401k; everything else, from wages to scope is unacceptable. even the shift differential rates are less than passenger service.

2 years ago, we talked about late sweeteners. well, the company added some late sweeteners. a wage sweetener for AMTs and a $3k sweetener for lus assoc. members for surrendering their insurance.

where is/are the sweetener(s) for laa fsc??

Read the next to last sentence in the passage about 401k, something about how the company can change it anytime they want.

 

[1986Mekanic]

The Company reserves the right to amend the American 401(k) Plan at the 42 Company’s sole discretion.

Art 30 page 164

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Read the next to last sentence in the passage about 401k, something about how the company can change it anytime they want.

The Company reserves the right to amend the American 401(k) Plan at the 42 Company’s sole discretion.

Art 30 page 164

yeah, i understand that...but the numbers are better. the other numbers; wages/shift differential/no change to profit sharing, are unacceptable.

imagine if the company was in a cycle where it makes money one year and loses money the next year?

passenger service is getting a 2.5% yearly raise the last 2 years of their current deal. the company is offering us 2% a year over the entire contract. the shift differential rates are also a few cents less.

 

[ATD]

I am a NO vote. has it stands for M&R.
Scope issues for me... talking to a few folks in Tulsa and the putting of OSM's in the docs to work in the cabin. Tulsa is not an MRO. If the company wants that, well they better put more $$$ on the table.

 

[WeAAsles]

• Returned $646 million to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases in the first quarter

 

[WeAAsles]

to me, the only upgrade is 401k; everything else, from wages to scope is unacceptable. even the shift differential rates are less than passenger service.

2 years ago, we talked about late sweeteners. well, the company added some late sweeteners. a wage sweetener for AMTs and a $3k sweetener for lus assoc. members for surrendering their insurance.

where is/are the sweetener(s) for laa fsc??

I have to suspect the Company really believed that their proposals would shine with us if they released them publicly and we would put pressure on our Negotiators to get it to us to vote on.

What they don’t understand is the fact that we do have some intelligent people out there that can break it down and see all the individual areas that they’re looking to shortchange us and hope to pass ambiguous language.

I’m looking forward to reading the point by point breakdown and counterproposals being released from the Association.

As I know you’re aware of the Scope but focus much on the economics I think you’ll find their wage proposals fairly reasonable and the 401K ask as we know is a straight contribution with no match needed.

The one philosophy I do recognize in a match though particularly for the younger set is how entices them to become active to learning to save themselves for their future. But I don’t think it should be tied to having to reach over 5% before the match kicks in.

I personally could support the Match portion if it was not tied to a Member having to put in a full 9% themselves to capitalize on it.

The 4% Match should be separate from the 5% Contribution and then pretty much we could talk all new hires into putting that into their retirement savings.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am a NO vote. has it stands for M&R.
Scope issues for me... talking to a few folks in Tulsa and the putting of OSM's in the docs to work in the cabin. Tulsa is not an MRO. If the company wants that, well they better put more $$$ on the table.

I think the Company should be pretty well aware from all the comments over the Web that if this was out for a vote it’s going to fail miserably.

With that said though I would agree that if the Mediators reach the point where they do declare an impasse or want to put us on ice for an extended period of time we should vote on these offers.

Let the chips fall where they may?

 

[ALUS78]

I think the Company should be pretty well aware from all the comments over the Web that if this was out for a vote it’s going to fail miserably.

With that said though I would agree that if the Mediators reach the point where they do declare an impasse or want to put us on ice for an extended period of time we should vote on these offers.

Let the chips fall where they may?

I cant see fleet passing if we sign this in September UAL leaps ahead in December

 

[WeAAsles]

I cant see fleet passing if we sign this in September UAL leaps ahead in December

The wage scales the Company posted for Fleet are based off of Delta + 3% and Delta is currently below where UAL is right now.

I know that the Association wants a yearly look back to keep us above whoever out there is at the top of the industry.

Personally I would agree to not even consider Delta in that equation because Delta has no contract agreements.