American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I read an article about how AA stock has fallen 7.5% over this past year. The fuel cost is one of the biggest problems. I’m sure the company will use that against us during negotiations. The company always find the way to not give us a decent contract. When times were good they had no excuse to give us a fair contract. Now they will say the company is losing money and cannot give us a fair contract. I hope we get back to the table soon, before they ask for concessions!

“Worldwide crude oil prices will average $63 a barrel in 2018 and in 2019. That's a dollar higher than the previous month's Short-term Energy Outlook by the U.S. Energy Information Administration.


In April 2018, global oil prices averaged $72/b. It's $6 a barrel higher than in March. Traders were responding to the November 30, 2017, OPEC meeting. The oil cartel's members agreed to keep production cuts through 2018.


On May 10, 2018, global oil prices reached $80/b. Investors believe Iran's oil supply will dwindle once sanctions are reimposed. On May 8, the United States pulled out of the Iran nuclear agreement and reinstated sanctions. It may also sanction companies who continue to deal with Iran.”

https://www.thebalance.com/oil-price-forecast-3306219

 

[737823]

That ship has sailed and quite frankly, when putting two CBA's together there will always be a perception of concessions from either side. That's a matter of individual priorities.

After TWA the IAM stopped collecting dues and went away and the membership came under the superior TWU CBA. Why didn’t that happen here? Kasher aside the IAM certification, CBAs and structure all got decertified and went away. The IAM should have had to get A cards to trigger an election. From LAA perspective aside from the interim wage increase from 09/16 at this point it’s the same as going to Section 6 on 09/12/18.

In all seriousness though I wonder with Janus and it’s future implications for RLA covered employees if the AFL-CIO will want it’s affiliates to tighten their belts would the two organizations merge structurally? The TWU has a much stronger brand and is in a superior capital position on a per capita basis but Janus could change that.

Josh

 

[NYer]

After TWA the IAM stopped collecting dues and went away and the membership came under the superior TWU CBA. Why didn’t that happen here? Kasher aside the IAM certification, CBAs and structure all got decertified and went away. The IAM should have had to get A cards to trigger an election. From LAA perspective aside from the interim wage increase from 09/16 at this point it’s the same as going to Section 6 on 09/12/18.

In all seriousness though I wonder with Janus and it’s future implications for RLA covered employees if the AFL-CIO will want it’s affiliates to tighten their belts would the two organizations merge structurally? The TWU has a much stronger brand and is in a superior capital position on a per capita basis but Janus could change that.

Josh

It was very likely for the IAM to get enough cards to trigger a vote.

If there was a merger, I'd assume the TWU would get swallowed by the larger IAM. The TWU had a working agreement with the CWA to try and save money by working together on certain things, like political activism, but that agreement was not consummated.

 

[B737 driver]

It was very likely for the IAM to get enough cards to trigger a vote.

If there was a merger, I'd assume the TWU would get swallowed by the larger IAM. The TWU had a working agreement with the CWA to try and save money by working together on certain things, like political activism, but that agreement was not consummated.

Hey N Yorker based on the history of the two Unions, outside of bankruptcy. Which union has the superior contracts the IAM or the TWU?. I would think the one with the better history, would win out.

 

[NYer]

Hey N Yorker based on the history of the two Unions, outside of bankruptcy. Which union has the superior contracts the IAM or the TWU?. I would think the one with the better history, would win out.

They each have advantages and disadvantages.

There are things in the IAM contract we would see as a disadvantage but under their culture and what they're used to they may prefer it. The same goes for the TWU side.

I don't think the union's history dictates a better contract. There are different variables that go into that determination with the company size and revenue being a bigger factor than the age of a particular union.

 

[B737 driver]

They each have advantages and disadvantages.

There are things in the IAM contract we would see as a disadvantage but under their culture and what they're used to they may prefer it. The same goes for the TWU side.

I don't think the union's history dictates a better contract. There are different variables that go into that determination with the company size and revenue being a bigger factor than the age of a particular union.

I would have to agree on that. The Unions at SWA, have enjoyed sucess because of SWA management, didn't made bad decisions. It's just like the Teamsters at UPS, have enjoyed UPS success.

 

[NYer]

I would have to agree on that. The Unions at SWA, have enjoyed sucess because of SWA management, didn't made bad decisions. It's just like the Teamsters at UPS, have enjoyed UPS success.

Success is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Success is in the eye of the beholder.

I have 32 swaps per quarter that I can just swap off. Nothing owed, nothing to make up, no set percentage I have to work, just 32 days a quarter in which I can swap off. I can also do swaps with others to switch a particular day. Those don't count against the 32.

How is the TWU's better? I hear that some members are gone for months??? With the 32, we can piggyback 64 together, i.e., use 32 in a row towards the end of the quarter and 32 at the beginning.

 

[NYer]

I have 32 swaps per quarter that I can just swap off. Nothing owed, nothing to make up, no set percentage I have to work, just 32 days a quarter in which I can swap off. I can also do swaps with others to switch a particular day. Those don't count against the 32.

How is the TWU's better? I hear that some members are gone for months??? With the 32, we can piggyback 64 together, i.e., use 32 in a row towards the end of the quarter and 32 at the beginning.

Well, the IAM is contractual language, so some say that just because of that it is better.

On the TWU side, we've had a policy govern our swaps (CS's), and it has been liberal and more flexible than the IAM language, and even the TA'd language because it affords the flexibility to make up your hours as long as you work 50% of your scheduled hours you're fine.

The new process will not be as dire, in my opinion, for most but it will undoubtedly affect a particular segment of the Members that rely on the ability to make up the 50% and it may also limit the number of available hours for those looking to work more. It could be, in time, most will adjust and be just fine, but at the outset, it will not be received positively.

 

[B737 driver]

Success is in the eye of the beholder.

As far as UPS I was referring to their mechanics pay scale, of course Fed ex mechanics are non union, and make just as much.

 

[Jester]

I have 32 swaps per quarter that I can just swap off. Nothing owed, nothing to make up, no set percentage I have to work, just 32 days a quarter in which I can swap off. I can also do swaps with others to switch a particular day. Those don't count against the 32.

How is the TWU's better? I hear that some members are gone for months??? With the 32, we can piggyback 64 together, i.e., use 32 in a row towards the end of the quarter and 32 at the beginning.

As liberal as would be the LUS policy, not having to count quarterly drops/swaps would be inferior to just having to work 50% of one's scheduled hours every six months as with LAA. It does not really affect me, but if I was commuting as many are doing after being displaced from a station, I would much more prefer the LAA method instead of worrying about having enough drops.

 

[NYer]

As liberal as would be the LUS policy, not having to count quarterly drops/swaps would be inferior to just having to work 50% of one's scheduled hours every six months as with LAA. It does not really affect me, but if I was commuting as many are doing after being displaced from a station, I would much more prefer the LAA method instead of worrying about having enough drops.

At this point, the Swap language shouldn't be a deciding factor in any possible vote for a JCBA.

 

[737823]

It was very likely for the IAM to get enough cards to trigger a vote.

If there was a merger, I'd assume the TWU would get swallowed by the larger IAM. The TWU had a working agreement with the CWA to try and save money by working together on certain things, like political activism, but that agreement was not consummated.

The TWU still gets rich agreements for their public sector employees in TWU Local 100.

The IAM is full of leaders who negotiate deals like McGee and UGE with voluntary recognition for dues.

Quality, not quantity of jobs. Sure the IAM LUS has more fleet points but they’re much smaller than LAA TWU.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well, the IAM is contractual language, so some say that just because of that it is better.

On the TWU side, we've had a policy govern our swaps (CS's), and it has been liberal and more flexible than the IAM language, and even the TA'd language because it affords the flexibility to make up your hours as long as you work 50% of your scheduled hours you're fine.

The new process will not be as dire, in my opinion, for most but it will undoubtedly affect a particular segment of the Members that rely on the ability to make up the 50% and it may also limit the number of available hours for those looking to work more. It could be, in time, most will adjust and be just fine, but at the outset, it will not be received positively.

So 6 months is from January to July, and then July to January? Do sick days count as days worked? Vacation? What if you haven't worked in 2 months, does your union dues and/or health cost still get deducted? Sounds interesting. I know it's already been TA'd but interesting.

 

[NYer]

The TWU still gets rich agreements for their public sector employees in TWU Local 100.

The IAM is full of leaders who negotiate deals like McGee and UGE with voluntary recognition for dues.

Quality, not quantity of jobs. Sure the IAM LUS has more fleet points but they’re much smaller than LAA TWU.

Josh

The IAM has over 500K members, with the TWU a little over 100K.