American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

Metal if we really worked with a group of intelligent adults who could keep their emotions out of play I would agree with you here 100%. But you and I both know out of 30,000 people not everyone is that bright.

Again I’ve never seen one Union yet put out all the agreed to language before everything is done.

Seriously can you recall ANY Union in our industry who has?

But yes I wish they could put it all out to read too.



I’d like it if they would be more specific as well. I’d like to know exactly what jobs they want to slap a “When and where so directed” onto?

No they don’t want to align with the industry. They want to at the very least protect what exists today and even grow from that. Why shouldn’t we be the group to lead back to growth in our groups?

Otherwise I don’t know where they’re willing to relent in any groups and that includes the Company? We won’t know until they say they’ve reached an AIP I guess?



From what I heard you’re correct on all of this. So we’re not quite back to what we used to have.

Most of us more Senior guys will get the Holliday’s though since many Holliday’s fall on Monday’s and we usually take Sat Sun off.

Oh the union doesn't think we are smart enough.How condescending is that

 

[ALUS78]

Scope offer couldn't have gotten any worse...loading and unloading aircraft only has become the battle cry.
I believe Sito and Garcia will fight like hell to prevent that from happening, I think they will also do their best
to make sure the stations we have we retain. I also think some monies will be moved around that will benefit
us. I know they will battle, but they fail to hold on to LUS medical and possibly the IAM pension.
But the number one priority is Scope so in a hard earned victory, they retain the work they set out to keep.
A victory indeed.

Yes the very work we already have.Sounds like a negotiating tactic to me more than anything else if it's even true

 

[ALUS78]

i wasn't any kind of pointer sisters fan, but it's for al. dare me on my dues, but don't dare the company.

let's see, 1985, i believe studio 54 was still open..al might have heard this typical 80s synth & electric drum beat in the club.

Preferred clubs with live rock and roll bands to disco. Coverbands I don't like the original chit,let them try it on someone else

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok, let's go with your way. If we are going to wait until all the language is done, then spare us the updates which are vague in detail.
I'd rather be left in the dark than just getting "teaser" info.
I don't want to hear we have most articles t/a'd without details. But that's me.

All this does is increase anxiety and frustration.

I agree. A few of the last “Official” updates were honestly starting to get a little ridiculous and would have been better served just stating that the two sides met but no agreements were reached.

I think they’re past that point now though with the filing of Section 6? They might not be able to divulge as much under its guidelines?

And I still do like Gary’s videos when he’s filing in some of the blanks that he can talk about. (Of course leaning heavily towards AMT’s) And Dale did a great job with that video he made explaining some mathematics. I like Mark Baskett’s updates and Juan Elvira in ORD has joined in some too.

 

[1AA]

Ok so we just crossed another bridge in negotiations. When are they going to start talking again?
Section 6 is next. 2 to 3 years of weekly updates. Then Mediation, another year or two or three. Then what? I figure 10% of the membership will have left the company in the next 3 to 5 years. The Association needs a new approach. Until then we will still have 5 holidays and the same old 401k plan. One thing for sure is that our medical will go up and no scheduled pay increases.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

"The Unions are anti union".

I've got to add this one to my collection of oxymoronic, foolish, and plain ludicrous quotes of all time...
It almost beats my favorite Giuliani quote... when he actually told Meet the Press that "Truth isn't truth" trying to defend Mr. Nelson's idol... SAD...

>SPIT<

 

[swamt]

I tried. This thread is completely gone now. Been in the tank for some time now, but now gone.

Ok, let's go with your way. If we are going to wait until all the language is done, then spare us the updates which are vague in detail.
I'd rather be left in the dark than just getting "teaser" info.
I don't want to hear we have most articles t/a'd without details. But that's me.

All this does is increase anxiety and frustration.

Agree...

 

[Racer X]

Al
they are going to have to throw some stations under the bus now like chairs off the titanic, to keep what was offered 2 weeks ago. These guys genuinely screwed up.
All stations had protections...ALL. Andthe union biatched about grandfather rights.
And Racer has no credibility. He says we will get more but openly acknowledges that Trump is going to tank the economy.
If we lose the economic leverage that made the company offer a $120 million per year offer to fleet alone, then where is the money gonna come from, the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Where is the money going to come from?

Please show me where I ever mentioned the POTUS.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don't see any drawbacks in telling us the verbage of t/a'd articles. If scope and medical are the two remaining issues preventing a tentative agreement, I don't know what the big secret is. We can handle it if some of these t/a's were revisited and changed.

I am looking to see in detail what is on the table as fair as sticking points. This is ALL I want....More details than videos and letter highlights. I don't want a crap contract but I want more info.
And to be fair, they are not currently working on the economics or anything else since we are waiting for mediators to be assigned. And with GP's latest letter reminding us that nothing can be forced on us in this process tells me that if the mediator suggests, for example, the company offer on Scope is aligned with the industry, the union will not buy into it.
And if the mediator, for example, says our medical premiums are why higher than the industry, they won't buy into it.

And one thing about the holidays....My understanding is you would have to work the HOLIDAY to get the double time and a half. There would be no holiday pay your first day back if the holiday fell on a day off or vacation. One plus is we would be able to bank 8 hours that day and get paid time and half.

they did tell us. It isnt a secret. The union told us the scope and eveything. In regards to mx, peterson said 2 whole job assignments werent protected, and half the heavy would be subject.
And as far as fleet, they said parker wants unlimited contracting out.

The problem isnt that its secret, its not, but that they dont show us.
Thus, since they already spilled the beans, then whats the fuss about showing u?

The reality is that they are lying 100% about fleet. Why? My guess is because they have to build a strawman to legitimate the long delay due to mx issues.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok, let's go with your way. If we are going to wait until all the language is done, then spare us the updates which are vague in detail.
I'd rather be left in the dark than just getting "teaser" info.
I don't want to hear we have most articles t/a'd without details. But that's me.

All this does is increase anxiety and frustration.

i agred. They should shut their holes and stop lying.
The company put out the frame of their entire offer, inclusing station protection. Do you realize that the union could not and did not falsify the company offer sheets presented? Since they couldnt falsify it, they resorted to videos telling us to "Attack the company" and telling us conspiracies.

Notice, the company stayed objective. It spoke a narrative, but it backed the narrative up with the offer sheet. The onus was about the union to back up its rants. It didnt and couldnt.

 

[Tim Nelson]

​

I've got to add this one to my collection of oxymoronic, foolish, and plain ludicrous quotes of all time...
It almost beats my favorite Giuliani quote... when he actually told Meet the Press that "Truth isn't truth" trying to defend Mr. Nelson's idol... SAD...

>SPIT<

plenty of proof exist. The Association is a management shill. It wasnt surprising that the Association hosed all of us by giving the company what it wanted without addressing our health care. We have zero leverage now.
Company has the twu bankrupt contract. Thats company leverage against us. Parker loves saving money by keeping the twu deal.

 

[737823]

​

I've got to add this one to my collection of oxymoronic, foolish, and plain ludicrous quotes of all time...
It almost beats my favorite Giuliani quote... when he actually told Meet the Press that "Truth isn't truth" trying to defend Mr. Nelson's idol... SAD...

>SPIT<

When the IAM enters into craft destroying agreements like at UA, and reduces down what constitutes a union job to McGee and UGE type terms with a 20 page CBA rife with “at discretion of management” and “in accordance with company policy” they are anti-union.

A 20 page CBA with many articles that say “at the discretion of management” is effectively company policies, not work rules and gives them the latitude to interpret, administer and change on a whim.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

When the IAM enters into craft destroying agreements like at UA, and reduces down what constitutes a union job to McGee and UGE type terms with a 20 page CBA rife with “at discretion of management” and “in accordance with company policy” they are anti-union.

A 20 page CBA with many articles that say “at the discretion of management” is effectively company policies, not work rules and gives them the latitude to interpret, administer and change on a whim.

Josh

^^^This^^^

 

[Kev3188]

Sometimes I think that when reading your posts...

...including this one.

Do better, man.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sometimes I think that when reading your posts...

...including this one.

Do better, man.

I’m sorry but I don’t care what your expectations are of me since you work for a non Unionized “competitive” Airline and live and semi hide out in a small station up in Wisconsin (Same as the Ozarks to me)

I’ll just have to get used to your daily pokes though since I guess it floats your boat.

But you really should step up yourself.