American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[MetalMover]

ENOUGH of the same old stale ASSociation updates from GP. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
It is time to let the members see IN DETAIL what the company's offer is. Fine print as well.
Hell, the ASSociation doesn't even show us its proposals! Are we children here waiting for permission from daddy to get some ice cream??
Is GP the only one that counts on the entire negotiating committee????????
Does any one else on the NC have the yams to speak out?????
Show the members the company's offer! Let us see how bad GP says it is.
What is he and the NC afraid of? Is he afraid that what is on the table might get voted in????? Do we not have democratic voting process?
ENOUGH ALREADY! LET MEMBERS SEE WHAT'S OFFERED AND ENOUGH WITH THESE STALE REPETITIVE UPDATES!!!!

 

[AANOTOK]

Apr 21, 2018

Fleet MATH as to why it will not pass IMO.

But first I want to hit this “frustration” line being floated. I’m on multiple Social Media pages and it just doesn’t exist. For those who are currently at $65,000 there isn’t exactly a fantastical reason to have frustrations. (Maybe slight aggravation’s yes) So no I don’t see this overwhelming emotion that’s being sold here.

Now MATH for this sub par offer.

27% IAM side is being offered essentially nothing but takeaways. So I see that as an overwhelming no vote there.

TWU All East Coast, Central and Mid West cities love the OT that the Winter Season And Deicing brings. So that and the changes to the OT language will bring an overwhelming no. NYC, BOS and ORD are all strong Union towns that WON’T accept job loss.

TWU MIA could be shaky on both the CS and OT change. So with no real wage increases and that piece could cause problems here. We do have a lot of New Hires who WILL jump on the $3000 though.

The wages myself and others have pointed out are terrible. .22 cents and 2% per year will easily put us in last place against our peers for the entirety of the agreement from next year on. Yes let’s not pretend here, people do focus on wages.

(EDIT HERE: Haven’t see anything yet discussing any more in wages than the 3% whatever line and until otherwise it’s still only .22 cents)

(2ND EDIT HERE: The “When and where so directed” line on jobs. Lavatory and Water servicing. Anyone done the math how many job functions that would be systemwide? The Lavs is all current TWU work I believe?)

The good is not enough to outweigh all the bad. And that’s not to say some of it isn’t “good” Great NO, Good yes.

Holidays, Good
Extra Vacation only over 30 years, stinks
Sick time, Meh
IOD time, Yuck (We used to have 80 days)
401k Match, Good but could be better.

The Buyout offer should be outside any agreement.

From there I’d be very interested in the fine print regarding work rules?

So now since people here on this site insist on doing this I want to see a detailed broken down analysis on why they see it passing. Keep your emotions and fluff in check and give me your own Mathematical breakdown on how you would get to your pass vote?

(3RD EDIT: So you want to vote on something that I know WON’T be endorsed by either Union and after which would probably waste Months setting up and going through the process not to mention the total waste of time? AND the emotions!!!! I think you put this out for a vote and maybe even some fists start flying) JMO, IMO.

Now can some of you crazy Kooks chill out and let me relax man? You’re ruining my zen man and I have a beverage here.

A lots happened since you’ve been gone W. I got a quiff haircut that makes me look like a Coward, no, actually it makes me look like a PSY.

 

[AANOTOK]

Maybe the answer is to push for a higher fixed contribution then?

Either way-and regardless of the progress of these talks- the Association should be doing a full court press on making sure all members understand what a match entails, and how they can get that "free" money in their accounts.

I see the company doing nothing wrong here. They put out a number they will match to assist in retirement savings and it’s up to each individual to take advantage of it. That comment of course is directly related to AA wanting no part of the IAM pension. Something by the way that wouldn’t benefit me or many other TWU members this late in their respective careers.

 

[1AA]

I see some are saying let's look at the company proposal and let the membership decide if we should or can vote on it. First of all did anyone see the ENTIRE company proposal from top to bottom? Second thing why do we have a NC to decide these things for us? It's funny how we get so many different views and opinions on what's happening. It just shows how we are so divided on everything that's contractual and union related. We look like we are begging for anything good to vote on and ignoring the scope. Talks stalled and summer is approaching. September will be an interesting time for negotiations. Plenty can happen to the world economy and the price of oil until then. Let's not forget that United and Continental were in a similar situation. They finally passed a JCBA almost FIVE years past their amenable dates. We will hit our amenable date in four months. Let's hope we don't follow that same road. That will put us around 2023. So let's not get stupid and beg to vote on anything that sounds good. I know plenty of guys want to vote on the companies proposal because it had a buyout offer. Sorry but the company can offer a buyout anytime before, during and after contractual negotiations. One last thing based on my opinion is that this Association has proven to be a real disaster from the beginning. It needs to be abolished.

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe the answer is to push for a higher fixed contribution then?

Either way-and regardless of the progress of these talks- the Association should be doing a full court press on making sure all members understand what a match entails, and how they can get that "free" money in their accounts.

The problem with it Kev is the Company trying to justify a FULL credit for the exchange or the implementation when they know good and well that many will say that 5% going in (Contribution) is good enough and won’t Capitalize on that “lost” value that will go back into the Company’s pockets.

Now if it was a 9% Contribution they could quantify the FULL value into their proposal.

Otherwise they should average out their costs on the Match portion and the rest should go to improvements in other areas of any offers.

 

[ALUS78]

A lots happened since you’ve been gone W. I got a quiff haircut that makes me look like a Coward, no, actually it makes me look like a PSY.

I would kill for any kind of haircut.

 

[Kev3188]

I see the company doing nothing wrong here. They put out a number they will match to assist in retirement savings and it’s up to each individual to take advantage of it.

Exactly!

The problem with it Kev is the Company trying to justify a FULL credit for the exchange or the implementation when they know good and well that many will say that 5% going in (Contribution) is good enough and won’t Capitalize on that “lost” value that will go back into the Company’s pockets.

I hear ya, but ultimately, who's fault is that?

I would kill for any kind of haircut.

I'd just like to have some hair again.

 

[MetalMover]

I see some are saying let's look at the company proposal and let the membership decide if we should or can vote on it. First of all did anyone see the ENTIRE company proposal from top to bottom? Second thing why do we have a NC to decide these things for us? It's funny how we get so many different views and opinions on what's happening. It just shows how we are so divided on everything that's contractual and union related. We look like we are begging for anything good to vote on and ignoring the scope. Talks stalled and summer is approaching. September will be an interesting time for negotiations. Plenty can happen to the world economy and the price of oil until then. Let's not forget that United and Continental were in a similar situation. They finally passed a JCBA almost FIVE years past their amenable dates. We will hit our amenable date in four months. Let's hope we don't follow that same road. That will put us around 2023. So let's not get stupid and beg to vote on anything that sounds good. I know plenty of guys want to vote on the companies proposal because it had a buyout offer. Sorry but the company can offer a buyout anytime before, during and after contractual negotiations. One last thing based on my opinion is that this Association has proven to be a real disaster from the beginning. It needs to be abolished.

AMEN!

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok for Fleet let’s think over the last 30 odd years or so how many jobs functions we used to do that we don’t do any longer? And I’m trying to consider work at both LAA and LUS

Too many Stations to count.
All Aircraft types.
Freight
Mail
Cabin Service
Deicing
Catering
Building cleaners
Lav dumps
Water
Equipment rooms
Fueling
Employee Bus driving
And I’m sure I’m still missing a few functions?

So now the Company wants to say I guess that none of that was ever our “CORE” work, whatever the F that means? And make sure the little bit of that left that we do on either side is taken away.

Same story with our Maintenance Brothers and Sisters.

 

[WeAAsles]

I hear ya, but ultimately, who's fault is that?

The Company. Why should that value go back into their pockets?

 

[ALUS78]

The Company. Why should that value go back into their pockets?

Since we all did get raises already this is going to be the best and maybe the only time to stand our ground

 

[Tim Nelson]

I said it before and ill say it again Josh rules

Josh is very knowledgeable and I met him over at T3 and we had a pleasant industry discussion.

 

[Tim Nelson]

"The company wants a minimum of 17% of our jobs" That's a lie.

"The company wants to cut insurance for 10000 employees" That's a lie.

"The company wants to pocket our money when employees don't contribute to the 401k." That's a lie.

"They are offering a contract that is cost negative to cost neutral." That's a lie.

Keep spreading that propaganda dude, I stopped listening to you and your buddy CB along time ago. You two offer noting factual in the way of updates or otherwise.

how do you know that is a lie?

 

[ALUS78]

Since we all did get raises already this is going to be the best and maybe the only time to stand our ground

Hear that Weez stand our ground for future generations of workers

 

[ALUS78]

how do you know that is a lie?

Thats what hours of sniffing cheap stripper perfume and drinking Near Beer will do to you