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American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

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It isn't like this path wasn't predictable.

Unfortunately, there was a lot of wasted time with the naysayers who believe this could or would never happen. Did we let opportunities pass us by because of that opaque view?

Was there an opportunity to conclude these Negotiations that I missed?

Would you accept the Company’s last “online” offer if it was presented to you how it was presented to us? (No complete details)
 
Reality is simple. The process was bogged down due to many reasons. Absolutely not because of any one single issue. All parties need to agree to all items that make up the entirety of a CBA.

At this moment according to our Union representatives the Company was presented with a comprehensive proposal on all remaining articles and at best was only handed back a sketch outline of what they consider to be a comprehension proposal in return.

There have been more than one roadshows where Association Representatives have implored the Company to get back to the table where they were met with ambivalence “Yea we need to do that”

Now we have an official Association communication that states they will meet with the Company next Month for “Minor issues”

Sounds to me as if it’s the Company who’s not too serious here? Unless there’s a new Jetnet Video from them that I’ve also missed?
 
May 2016: "One more time. This will absolutely NOT drag out all the way to September of 2018 which is 2 years and 4 months from now, or 28 more months. Let's get out of this doom and gloom mindset. PLEASE." --WeAAsles

Not acknowledging reaching this point was a possibility could have wasted time and effort trying to gain the best possible outcome over the last two years. Now, trying to do that in a matter of weeks by turning the goal from an "industry-leading" to a "fair" contract is just a wasted opportunity.

You can try to turn the focus, but this possibility has been brought up on these pages many times only for it be discounted, yet here we are.
 
May 2016: "One more time. This will absolutely NOT drag out all the way to September of 2018 which is 2 years and 4 months from now, or 28 more months. Let's get out of this doom and gloom mindset. PLEASE." --WeAAsles

Not acknowledging reaching this point was a possibility could have wasted time and effort trying to gain the best possible outcome over the last two years. Now, trying to do that in a matter of weeks by turning the goal from an "industry-leading" to a "fair" contract is just a wasted opportunity.

You can try to turn the focus, but this possibility has been brought up on these pages many times only for it be discounted, yet here we are.


Are you serious? Who am I? LMAO. I’m not a Negotiator. So what if I was wrong. Are you somehow of the mindset that “I” somehow had control over the process? Maybe I’m a Svengali or something?

I thought it would take about 6 Months originally but again so the heck what.

And personally I don’t care if it takes another 2 and a half years if I had to vote on that crap the Company posted. I’m going to vote a BIG FAT NO if that’s the case.

A BIG FAT NO!!!!!! (1 vote)
 
May 2016: "One more time. This will absolutely NOT drag out all the way to September of 2018 which is 2 years and 4 months from now, or 28 more months. Let's get out of this doom and gloom mindset. PLEASE." --WeAAsles

Not acknowledging reaching this point was a possibility could have wasted time and effort trying to gain the best possible outcome over the last two years. Now, trying to do that in a matter of weeks by turning the goal from an "industry-leading" to a "fair" contract is just a wasted opportunity.

You can try to turn the focus, but this possibility has been brought up on these pages many times only for it be discounted, yet here we are.


BTW NYer if you can’t take the heat maybe you should get the hell out of the game.

The Company offer as it stands for all Association Groups is a POS and I’d be shocked as chit if that is what we have to vote on someday.

A HEAPING STINKY TURD.
 
Are you serious? Who am I?

You're the guy that's been on these pages insulting most people that you don't agree with. As it turns out you've been consistently wrong about this entire process, which is especially noteworthy being that you have so many "friends" to rely on for your information.

Having to constantly deflect, defer or even change the subject because of the information others relied on you to share has been so wrong. 😵
 
You're the guy that's been on these pages insulting most people that you don't agree with. As it turns out you've been consistently wrong about this entire process, which is especially noteworthy being that you have so many "friends" to rely on for your information.

Having to constantly deflect, defer or even change the subject because of the information others relied on you to share has been so wrong. 😵

Yes but I’m actually a Svengali so I’ve been lying all along and you have finally exposed me too late. But Thank You seriously for giving me so much credit and attention. I’ll always love you for this moment you emotional little vixon you. lol.

BTW NYer those “friends” of mine are your new Handlers. Man is that ironic.

D70A4BF4-5427-4C85-822B-E3469BF407DC.webp
 
The Association gave their comprehensive proposal back in 2015. That is still the comprehensive proposal as it stands and if the Company again says this is their “FINAL” offer, then that by its very definition means they will not entertain any further movement.

Oh yeah, that pipe dream... I know I used the word "reasonable" to describe a comprehensive proposal. Nothing wrong with starting high as an initial offer, because it is difficult to increase the desired value later. However, as negotiations progress I would like to think there have been other (reasonable) comprehensive proposals offered by the Association in the past 3 years. I don't recall reading anything in Association statements though.
 
Oh yeah, that pipe dream... I know I used the word "reasonable" to describe a comprehensive proposal. Nothing wrong with starting high as an initial offer, because it is difficult to increase the desired value later. However, as negotiations progress I would like to think there have been other (reasonable) comprehensive proposals offered by the Association in the past 3 years. I don't recall reading anything in Association statements though.

Over the course of time until they reached the Economics I’m sure many things changed and were modified from their original proposal and then TA’d.

I think they did present a modified proposal to the Company a few months ago now. If they decided to put that out publicly it would be up to you to decide if it was reasonable or not?
 
AANOTOK,

I posted long ago after some Association "progress" report of outstanding the "minor issues" did not strike me as being small details, and questioned what has been discussed for the past couple of years. Not to mention, having meetings being scheduled so infrequently as to suggest not much interest or common ground to find a resolution by one or both sides. I think it was Tim who posted several months ago of Section 6 being a real possibility which was very much contrary to being so "close" to a rumored T.A. I think in many ways we have been mislead, and while it is easy to it being say due to internet message board(s) and our own expectations, I cannot ignore much of it being from the Association's official pronouncements. I could speculate as to motive understanding as no one wants to appear to be ineffective or incompetent, especially as it may call into question their raison d'etre, but I am harboring doubts as to the Association's ability to negotiate a deal.

I believe we are on the precipice of a negotiation crisis, if not already over the edge sliding into Section 6. I concur with your prediction of Management using this meeting as a de facto "last-best-final-offer" with some enhancements to the initial offer, but I am concerned the Association will not submit a reasonable comprehensive counter-proposal providing material for both discussion and direction. Just saying, "No" and taking to social media to attack the Company proposals will not open the already all-too-infrequent dialogue. My thinking will be the Company will warn of the potential consequences of Section 6, and push for a vote knowing that while both FSCs and MXs exit together with their respective T.A.'s, each work group will vote separately. Should one group pass a T.A., then that's one less group to focus upon otherwise we fall into the void of Section 6.
And weeasles popped off when i mentioned this was going to section 6. Negotiations were "turnkey" even insomuch that Gary Peterson was projecting a "called shot" for a december TA. Weeasles handlers made him flip again and support the quick TA.
The monkey wrench was that Sito's election may be delayed thru April, 2019. Otherwise the ta was coming.
Honestly, this whole thing is political. Alex Garcia is naive so he bought Sito's BS about the DOL and took a beta position as a pupil under Sito.

NYer has stayed consistent, and has unfortunately seemed to be blackballed and smeared because of his honesty, so the deal was cut by lehive to try to sabatoge this page with lehives boy.
 
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If the Association hasn't put forth a comprehensive offer, then the option is still possible after the "last-best-final-offer" because as others have rightfully pointed-out, then Company is negotiating against itself. Offers and counter offers are part of the give-and-take, but they need to be substantive proposals. "Last-Best-Final" offers only have meaning when there has been nothing else to discuss.
The Association has NOT given a counter offer. So the company is not bothering. Sitos ego is too blame.

The phl mx union boss even blurted out in the phl video that the union has no intention of negotiating if there are concessions. The company will NEVER rejoin talks without a counter. Weez is either ignorant, being intellectually dishonest, or lehive has instructed him to hold his failed position until further guidance.
 
Oh yeah, that pipe dream... I know I used the word "reasonable" to describe a comprehensive proposal. Nothing wrong with starting high as an initial offer, because it is difficult to increase the desired value later. However, as negotiations progress I would like to think there have been other (reasonable) comprehensive proposals offered by the Association in the past 3 years. I don't recall reading anything in Association statements though.
Would you please call the association and get on the negotiation team so we can get this all wrapped up since you know how easy it will be
 
Would you please call the association and get on the negotiation team so we can get this all wrapped up since you know how easy it will be

Never said negotiations to be easy, but rather my commentary would be based upon the credibility of Association. How long have we been told that there are some "minor issues" (i.e. pay, retirement, health insurance, etc. which are the lion's share of the cost structure), and a deal was around the corner for the last few years? So the Company made public it's (questionable) offer, and the Association just cried about it being unacceptable? No counter offers, no explanations, no insights, no serious calls for negotiations-- Big Nothing Burger. Meanwhile negotiation schedules have been akin to my car's maintenance schedule, as no one appears to be in a hurry.

If you find this pace and lack of action to be acceptable, then fine, but I suspect few would agree with you.
 
I think the only positive to take from that updates is that they’re actually meeting as opposed to not meeting.
 
Update

Call it what you want, but these negotiations were derailed when the company offered a cost neutral/negative contract. The raises would fall behind UA this December and stay behind UA for the duration. They want a minimum of 5000 jobs which is 17% of the combined membership. The 401k would end up putting money back in the companies pockets. The profit sharing is behind Delta and United, the insurance is a negative and hundreds may be bumped down to part time or have to move to hold FT.

We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6.

P. Rez
 
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