American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

May 2016: "One more time. This will absolutely NOT drag out all the way to September of 2018 which is 2 years and 4 months from now, or 28 more months. Let's get out of this doom and gloom mindset. PLEASE." --WeAAsles

Not acknowledging reaching this point was a possibility could have wasted time and effort trying to gain the best possible outcome over the last two years. Now, trying to do that in a matter of weeks by turning the goal from an "industry-leading" to a "fair" contract is just a wasted opportunity.

You can try to turn the focus, but this possibility has been brought up on these pages many times only for it be discounted, yet here we are.

i met weez and he seemed like a nice guy but unless he has 5 personalities i think he just does what Lehive or 700 order. The problem isnt weez as much as his handlers. Along with peterson who has guaranteed at least 2 failed conclusions.

When GP guaranteed last Christmas, that gave management leverage.

At any rate, Angelo guaranteeing no layoffs may just mean that these guys are really dumb. Good Grief!

 

[Tim Nelson]

t

I’m my opinion, I don’t see any leverage in Sec 6. I don’t see any right now to be honest. What are we doing now that would force the company to rethink their position?

he iam has already confirmed it most likely will not and can not strike. Game over fellas.

 

[WeAAsles]

i met weez and he seemed like a nice guy but unless he has 5 personalities i think he just does what Lehive or 700 order. The problem isnt weez as much as his handlers. Along with peterson who has guaranteed at least 2 failed conclusions.

When GP guaranteed last Christmas, that gave management leverage.

At any rate, Angelo guaranteeing no layoffs may just mean that these guys are really dumb. Good Grief!

I’d have to be honest and say that you’re both.

 

[WeAAsles]

t

he iam has already confirmed it most likely will not and can not strike. Game over fellas.

Kinda sucks you’re going to be stuck in that IAMPF for years and years and years then I guess.

Oh well. How many times can they really cut it on ya huh?

“Additionally, the complaint said, the trustees’ spending on parties and dinner was lavish and improper. At one party,, they bought bottles of wine priced as high as $1,185, the complaint said. Expenses for the pension fund holiday parties in 2009 and 2010 exceeded $90,000, the complaint said.

The complaint alleged that quarterly meetings were scheduled at resort destinations like Hawaii, Beverly Hills and Martha’s Vineyard, where trustees stayed in expensive hotels during peak season, and that one trustee billed the fund $750 a day to travel and attend meetings.”

 

[B737 driver]

You forgot to mention AMFA at SWA. 5 and half years (And counting)

Next?

Well technically we don't have a official T/A yet, AMFA tried to put some language in there the company did not agree to, the company sent it back. This was after the union had it for 18 days. So maybe we will get to vote sometime this summer. No road shows scheduled yet! Some people are trying to spread if we don't have a deal the FAA won't approve our ETOPS program, trying to generate a no vote. So who knows. Maybe we will go longer than 6 years.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

This Association took quite some time to get ready to negotiate and they had a great economic situation to use. There was never any real urgency shown. Add to that the fact that the company had to give us the money which made the Association look bad. It's easy to see how many many members were wondering if we had stumble bums handling things. I think many people harbor doubts Jester, with the view that the Association is the root of the problem.

the root of the problem is the assoc.? unless the assoc. is asking for $41/hr. wages and 11 weeks vc, the root of the problem is the company.

the company is stalling. .24 cents more than dl AND take away lus insurance AND outsource this and that AND cut x-amount of jobs is a huge joke and they knew it was a joke that no one would ever accept. so, why waste time with that?

there is no legislation to force a company to pay retro pay. what's the rush??? these guys ghostwrote/ghostwrite the law..so, let's fully exploit it.

now, i'll wait for mitt robme to write an op-ed in the wall street journal, like he did when the big 3 automakers were ready to die. robme told them to smash the uaw in a million pieces, we wrote the BK law, take advantage of it. the auto CEOs refused to do so and blamed pharmaceutical companies, health insurance companies and for-profit hospitals for the outrageous spike with health care costs that harmed them.

bottom line, these guys rule the roost now. shareholder value.

 

[bob@las-AA]

the root of the problem is the assoc.? unless the assoc. is asking for $41/hr. wages and 11 weeks vc, the root of the problem is the company.

the company is stalling. .24 cents more than dl AND take away lus insurance AND outsource this and that AND cut x-amount of jobs is a huge joke and they knew it was a joke that no one would ever accept. so, why waste time with that?

there is no legislation to force a company to pay retro pay. what's the rush??? these guys ghostwrote/ghostwrite the law..so, let's fully exploit it.

now, i'll wait for mitt robme to write an op-ed in the wall street journal, like he did when the big 3 automakers were ready to die. robme told them to smash the uaw in a million pieces, we wrote the BK law, take advantage of it. the auto CEOs refused to do so and blamed pharmaceutical companies, health insurance companies and for-profit hospitals for the outrageous spike with health care costs that harmed them.

bottom line, these guys rule the roost now. shareholder value.

Deleted

 

[Buck]

Well technically we don't have a official T/A yet, AMFA tried to put some language in there the company did not agree to, the company sent it back. This was after the union had it for 18 days. So maybe we will get to vote sometime this summer. No road shows scheduled yet! Some people are trying to spread if we don't have a deal the FAA won't approve our ETOPS program, trying to generate a no vote. So who knows. Maybe we will go longer than 6 years.

What is this part of?

 

[B737 driver]

What is this part of?


View attachment 12822

That's the high lights of the package the company put out in our emails of the A.I.P.

 

[Talos]

the root of the problem is the assoc.? unless the assoc. is asking for $41/hr. wages and 11 weeks vc, the root of the problem is the company.

the company is stalling. .24 cents more than dl AND take away lus insurance AND outsource this and that AND cut x-amount of jobs is a huge joke and they knew it was a joke that no one would ever accept. so, why waste time with that?

there is no legislation to force a company to pay retro pay. what's the rush??? these guys ghostwrote/ghostwrite the law..so, let's fully exploit it.

now, i'll wait for mitt robme to write an op-ed in the wall street journal, like he did when the big 3 automakers were ready to die. robme told them to smash the uaw in a million pieces, we wrote the BK law, take advantage of it. the auto CEOs refused to do so and blamed pharmaceutical companies, health insurance companies and for-profit hospitals for the outrageous spike with health care costs that harmed them.

bottom line, these guys rule the roost now. shareholder value.

Management has been great about paying themselves and anyone can see they want to low ball us. I just think this Association never has really clicked and was a bad idea to force on the members. Two groups with different agendas trying to negotiate just seems a lot harder. Just go for and industry leading deal. When you have a situation where one thing is real important to this side, but the other side has other preferences it seems difficult to just get the best deal. Frankly, never voting for this arrangement left a bad feeling for lots of people.You could almost see what would come. I don't begrudge the LUS people anything they have. Glad for them, but combine the management who talks one way and does another with the other difficulties and there you have it. It is what it is.

 

[Kev3188]

...bottom line, these guys rule the roost now. shareholder value.

Only because we’ve all bought into the idea that they do...

 

[aintgotnotimefodat]

Funny...I hear Union brothers say don't eat the company food, take company gifts, show up or ask questions at meetings.....then u see union guys on Paid UB (union business) being the DJ, company liasons, etc..... flounders...lol

 

[aintgotnotimefodat]

TWU is only seeking dues paying members $$$$...not worried about industry leading pay and/or benefits....whatever outsourcing language they claim we are fighting for, will be the same one we'll give away a few years later... remember past history....

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I just think this Association never has really clicked and was a bad idea to force on the members.

i don't think too many people would argue with you, including those on the negotiating committee.

assume the twu was representing all, what do you believe would have changed? maybe the twu would have been eager to sell the lus insurance...but, as we have seen, the company is very interested in buying it back, they don't want to pay for it at all. they don't wish to pay for anything, as prez says the company wants a cost-negative contract after all the money earned the last 4 years.

if the company was interested in progress, they wouldn't have attacked us on all fronts - assuming maximalist bargaining positions on all fronts - from wages to scope to benefits (remember how the company was dead set against a 6th vc for fleet service).

the numbers don't lie, the company is 4th out of the big 4 airlines in percentage of revenues going back to employees. they wish to maintain this.

 

[chilokie1]

Update

Call it what you want, but these negotiations were derailed when the company offered a cost neutral/negative contract. The raises would fall behind UA this December and stay behind UA for the duration. They want a minimum of 5000 jobs which is 17% of the combined membership. The 401k would end up putting money back in the companies pockets. The profit sharing is behind Delta and United, the insurance is a negative and hundreds may be bumped down to part time or have to move to hold FT.

We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6.

P. Rez

With all due respect, these negotiations were never on the rail. I said from day one that the two contracts were too different
to blend into one without calling it a concessionary contract because the company would not accept all the best items of each
contract. Add to that the non-vote on the Association & the snake oil salesmen trying to sell the IAMPF to the LAA folks you
would have to say the level of trust & optimism was dead from the start.