American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

So will you soon be flying here to MIA to call me a cockroach to my face? You call a lot of people a lot of names on here for your own personal amusement but never anyone in your own city little man.

the delta people are in the clouds speculating...now with oil under $50 and a much stronger 4th quarter of 2018, 16%-18% of 2018's wages for profit sharing?

tim is telling me that i should be grateful for a $1,000 profit sharing check and a mysterious DOS offer (is it 3% more than dl or ua??) and over woeful compensation package in exchange for scope concessions and rising medical plans when the company will be profitable forever due to the shale oil revolution?

tim was talking about $85 oil will f#ck us? ok, it was $46+ this morning...now what? that windfall will go to shareholders, not us.

 

[Tim Nelson]

the delta people are in the clouds speculating...now with oil under $50 and a much stronger 4th quarter of 2018, 16%-18% of 2018's wages for profit sharing?

tim is telling me that i should be grateful for a $1,000 profit sharing check and a mysterious DOS offer (is it 3% more than dl or ua??) and over woeful compensation package in exchange for scope concessions and rising medical plans when the company will be profitable forever due to the shale oil revolution?

tim was talking about $85 oil will f#ck us? ok, it was $46+ this morning...now what? that windfall will go to shareholders, not us.

you don't have to accept the gift of profit sharing. Just cancel the check next year. Not sure why we have to discuss this but your union didn't negotiate it. It's freely given. So, if you don't like it, nobody is stopping you from ripping up the check or donating it to charity.

As far as the contract, you can blame your union for giving up the LUS health care and scope I guess. I'm not the one stripping it from you. I could have wrapped up negotiations by signing a contract in 15 minutes that would have preserved most of the things you will lose when your union submits. When it chose to stand down and not fight for you is when you lost your health care and scope now. Actually, it should have taken the last offer when catering and all fleet scope was included, but it chose to stand down and wait on MX. That lil move cost 1,000 jobs. You will find out. And it won't get any better so we need to just all vote yes as soon as the contract comes out since we have no leverage at this point and we could lose even more.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

you don't have to accept the gift of profit sharing. Just cancel the check next year. Not sure why we have to discuss this but your union didn't negotiate it. It's freely given. So, if you don't like it, nobody is stopping you from ripping up the check or donating it to charity.

first off, you need to fire your economic commodities advisor...oil at $46+ this morning. you remember going on and on about higher oil and how it plays right into the company's hands? now, this will only show how stingy the company is.

a strange coincidence is that delta's profit sharing program is also a 'gift'? is it contractual for delta rampers?? no? they don't have a contract.

so, delta not only pays their ramper more than aa per hour, but also gives their ramper a $13,000 gift and aa gives me a $1,000 gift and i'm supposed to be grateful?

no, not in today's day and age of shale oil.

 

[WeAAsles]

nah..fares are at historic lows. in war time 1942, a ticket from honolulu to san francisco on pan am cost $250, 2018 equivalent to $4,000.

passengers want to fly for free and then complain about it. take greyhound or amtrack if you don't like it.

the baker complains about fares, but he won't sell me a loaf of bread for .20 cents and farmer's daughter complains about fares, but i can't get a gallon of milk for .75 cents. they say they need to eat, well, our company and us also need to eat too.

these whiners only encourage the spirits and frontiers and now it looks like aa is responding to this clientele.

My comment was mostly meant to bust Al’s chops since he only worries about what Union people are earning and never focuses on plenty of other people out in the World who are accused of earning too much (us) as well.

I do think it’s a hard sell though to protest “Corporate Greed” when we’re not exactly starving here though. We need a better game plan than that one if people think of using it.

the delta people are in the clouds speculating...now with oil under $50 and a much stronger 4th quarter of 2018, 16%-18% of 2018's wages for profit sharing?

tim is telling me that i should be grateful for a $1,000 profit sharing check and a mysterious DOS offer (is it 3% more than dl or ua??) and over woeful compensation package in exchange for scope concessions and rising medical plans when the company will be profitable forever due to the shale oil revolution?

tim was talking about $85 oil will f#ck us? ok, it was $46+ this morning...now what? that windfall will go to shareholders, not us.

Tim doesn’t care about the financials. He only wants to spend the rest of his life trying to figure out a way to critically damage the IAM. It’s his passion and obsession. His White Whale.

I can guarantee if we accepted any current supposed offers he would rail against it as a 180 degree pivot and if we passed it we would all be called stupid for going against him and it would all be the IAM’s fault if we fell behind someone.

Anyway Crema at least your safe from any name calling. Since you’re in the same city as Tim he wouldn’t DARE take the risk you might walk over to his work area and say hello.

 

[WeAAsles]

Check this article out Crema.

And Oil prices are in a tailspin again today.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Shale-Growth-Could-Slow-On-Oil-Price-Meltdown.html

 

[CremaDiLimone]

As far as the contract, you can blame your union for giving up the LUS health care and scope I guess. I'm not the one stripping it from you. I could have wrapped up negotiations by signing a contract in 15 minutes that would have preserved most of the things you will lose when your union submits. When it chose to stand down and not fight for you is when you lost your health care and scope now. Actually, it should have taken the last offer when catering and all fleet scope was included, but it chose to stand down and wait on MX. That lil move cost 1,000 jobs. You will find out. And it won't get any better so we need to just all vote yes as soon as the contract comes out since we have no leverage at this point and we could lose even more.

i'm not a big fan of the twu..but the most plausible argument is that the iam people wouldn't budge on insurance (i don't blame them) and we're at where we're at. how could the twu give up lus insurance and scope?

the iam should have approached the company and asked what can we get ABOVE what you are offering, to give up the lus insurance. no doubt that many lus people would rather keep the insurance for less compensation, but the key here is that the company obviously drew a red line on it. if it's 1952, we'll win. it's 2018 and no union has any leg to stand on anymore.

you do understand the numbers and what the oil windfall means in actual numbers??

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Check this article out Crema.

And Oil prices are in a tailspin again today.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Shale-Growth-Could-Slow-On-Oil-Price-Meltdown.html

View attachment 13607

did we ever gloat? we knew it would come back down...the shale people started rocking and rolling when oil got to $65-$70/bbl.

aa buys apprx. 5 billion gallons (mainline & regional) of jet fuel a year.

.20 cents cheaper is $1 billion in profits out of nowhere.

.40 cents cheaper is $2 billion in profits out of nowhere.

all that, on top of the $2-$3-$4 billion they will earn by default, MISMANAGING this once great airline.

 

[Tim Nelson]

first off, you need to fire your economic commodities advisor...oil at $46+ this morning. you remember going on and on about higher oil and how it plays right into the company's hands? now, this will only show how stingy the company is.

a strange coincidence is that delta's profit sharing program is also a 'gift'? is it contractual for delta rampers?? no? they don't have a contract.

so, delta not only pays their ramper more than aa per hour, but also gives their ramper a $13,000 gift and aa gives me a $1,000 gift and i'm supposed to be grateful?

no, not in today's day and age of shale oil.

It's a gift. Be grateful. Or rip up the check or donate it. Nothing wrong with bringing our grievances to the company about it and wanting more though.
Obviously, Delta is setting the standards, it would be nice for our company to raise that bar.

 

[Tim Nelson]

i'm not a big fan of the twu..but the most plausible argument is that the iam people wouldn't budge on insurance (i don't blame them) and we're at where we're at. how could the twu give up lus insurance and scope?

the iam should have approached the company and asked what can we get ABOVE what you are offering, to give up the lus insurance. no doubt that many lus people would rather keep the insurance for less compensation, but the key here is that the company obviously drew a red line on it. if it's 1952, we'll win. it's 2018 and no union has any leg to stand on anymore.

you do understand the numbers and what the oil windfall means in actual numbers??

Oil is pretty volatile but the company is greedy as heck. Once the union gave up its leverage, the company became hellbent on its last best final offer. The only exception was that it made a one time offer to the Association to give fleet all of the current scope, even catering and lavs, but the union stood down on it so it could barter the fleet jobs to ease the pain of the upcoming MX loss. So catering is now gone and some other things. But they should have taken that offer.

As it turns out, it won't matter how low oil goes. All the extra money will go in the company's pocket and not ours. That's why it was important for the union to keep its leverage, i.e., for times as this where it really could have received more. But with no bullets, the company won't share.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oil is pretty volatile but the company is greedy as heck. Once the union gave up its leverage, the company became hellbent on its last best final offer. The only exception was that it made a one time offer to the Association to give fleet all of the current scope, even catering and lavs, but the union stood down on it so it could barter the fleet jobs to ease the pain of the upcoming MX loss. So catering is now gone and some other things. But they should have taken that offer.

Creama this guy has been pumping out this crap PSYCHOPATHICALLY over and over 20 times a day non stop and NO ONE has EVER seen any of this NONSENSE in WRITING.

That’s why I keep saying and this is not a joke that there’s something wrong with him.

“Hellbent on there last best final offer”

Where have ANY of us seen ANYTHING that said “Last, Last best, or Last Best Final offer”

Since Tim first said that there has been movement and items have been agreed to. So where is this “Last best final offer” GARBAGE coming from if not a bent mind.

Tim if all of this CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP you say is true let’s see some damn documented proof or for GODS SAKE move on and go live your life. Do something else. Find something else. Beg borrow or steal to do something else.

You ARE NOT convincing anyone of anything and we don’t talk to the Company again till next MONTH.

Tim please go back to your Facebook Group page and bother whatever Lemmings you got left there.

 

[WeAAsles]

did we ever gloat? we knew it would come back down...the shale people started rocking and rolling when oil got to $65-$70/bbl.

aa buys apprx. 5 billion gallons (mainline & regional) of jet fuel a year.

.20 cents cheaper is $1 billion in profits out of nowhere.

.40 cents cheaper is $2 billion in profits out of nowhere.

all that, on top of the $2-$3-$4 billion they will earn by default, MISMANAGING this once great airline.

And I haven’t read anywhere of any softening of demand for flights or any softening of ticket prices.

And yes when it comes to Profit Sharing this oil drop is going to be a dramatic windfall for Delta, United and Southwest Airline Employees.

El Cheapo AA Air will continue to shortchange us and think we should raise Pom Poms for their generosity.

 

[Kev3188]

It's a gift. Be grateful. Or rip up the check or donate it. Nothing wrong with bringing our grievances to the company about it and wanting more though.
Obviously, Delta is setting the standards, it would be nice for our company to raise that bar.

I see PS as a shrewd business move. It's a great way to get "buy in" from the rank and file and makes for really good PR at the same time.

It's a much more "exciting" story than simply stating that returning profits to workers that helped generate them is good for productivity.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Creama this guy has been pumping out this crap PSYCHOPATHICALLY over and over 20 times a day non stop and NO ONE has EVER seen any of this NONSENSE in WRITING.

That’s why I keep saying and this is not a joke that there’s something wrong with him.

“Hellbent on there last best final offer”

Where have ANY of us seen ANYTHING that said “Last, Last best, or Last Best Final offer”

Since Tim first said that there has been movement and items have been agreed to. So where is this “Last best final offer” GARBAGE coming from if not a bent mind.

Tim if all of this CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP you say is true let’s see some damn documented proof or for GODS SAKE move on and go live your life. Do something else. Find something else. Beg borrow or steal to do something else.

You ARE NOT convincing anyone of anything and we don’t talk to the Company again till next MONTH.

Tim please go back to your Facebook Group page and bother whatever Lemmings you got left there.

First off, my apologies for calling you a cockroach. No, I'm not afraid and I personally think I could take ya, but you are not a cockroach although you do act like one at times. Poor choice of words on my part.

Yea so anyways, I think we really need to take the last best final offer. It isn't going to be tweaked to anything better. What is significant is Obamacare and its restrictions that may benefit LUS insomuch that plans need notice of at least 12 months to be changed. That means that LUS Health care is definitely good for the next 12 months after a JCBA but it could be good until January 2021 unless the company wants to change out plans midyear?

As far as the economy, it is softening now. Freight has dragged the last two months on the highways and inventory isn't expanding. So, it would seem that within the next 6 months that our industry may be cooling off. That will eventually mean layoffs I believe as time goes.

 

[WeAAsles]

First off, my apologies for calling you a cockroach. No, I'm not afraid and I personally think I could take ya, but you are not a cockroach although you do act like one at times. Poor choice of words on my part.

Tim you’re an adult. Maybe time you try acting like one and take responsibility for your words? You call people all over the Country (Except in Chicago) all sorts of offensive (Non Christian BTW) names.

Maybe you should finally man up and fly to one of these locations, MIA, DFW, CLT, PHX, DCA, wherever and call one of these people one of those names to their faces in a nice (private) location?

Take your pick? Man up.

 

[WeAAsles]

I see PS as a shrewd business move. It's a great way to get "buy in" from the rank and file and makes for really good PR at the same time.

It's a much more "exciting" story than simply stating that returning profits to workers that helped generate them is good for productivity.

Don’t forget to add to your “exciting” story the different formulas. Your Company sets 10% aside in a pool to share with 80,000 Employees where AA sets aside 5% to dole out to 120,000 Employees.

Those are the reasons I don’t consider our PS plan to be any sort of “exciting” thrill ride myself.

I’d rather have dramatically higher (guaranteed) wages instead.