American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Tell it to the association especially Sito.

Answer? NONE!!!

“Bad Salesman” no one wants your encyclopedias. And your Boogeyman Sito just isn’t flying. That Boogeyman was never actually under your bed.

SCOPE!!!!!!!

 

[MetalMover]

If that happens, I’m sorry. I truly am. The Company is just asking for far too much on their Scope asks. The worst being in Title 2. It’s almost complete devastation.

Just because I dislike the TWU does not mean I agree with what the company is asking.
You miss the point when I talk negatively about the TWU. The fact that people are excited over the Samuelsen effect means nothing to me. I find people like him to be embarassing for the cause.
I doubt that Isom or Parker are shaking in their boots.
As for GP, well I’m not impressed either.

 

[WeAAsles]

Just because I dislike the TWU does not mean I agree with what the company is asking.
You miss the point when I talk negatively about the TWU. The fact that people are excited over the Samuelsen effect means nothing to me. I find people like him to be embarassing for the cause.
I doubt that Isom or Parker are shaking in their boots.
As for GP, well I’m not impressed either.

So you prefer they just sit back and do nothing and say nothing then?

Aren’t posters on here criticizing the IAM for doing just that?

Also why dfw gen has been asking you what would be your solution?

So what would be your solution?

Edit: And if you find Samuelsen to be an embarrassment why don’t you want to “READ” what he’s done at Local 100 to see if his tactics have been effective or not?

Maybe you prefer out Negotiators remain professional towards a group of people who are not listening to them?

 

[V.O. Reason]

The only way the company changes its position on scope is a compromise on something else that is being offered which can be a number of things mostly negative,
Which continues the stalemate and this could go on for years because of maybe 500 or 1000 jobs through attrition.
So 12000 of us loose on pay benefits and all such matters.
Then the idiots who agree with Sameleson and his stupid rant to destroy the company at the expense of thousands more jobs is the most counterproductive things I’ve ever seen.
Trust me there are plenty of people who would love to have what we have now. This fight is insane and is only harming us.
You can believe all you want that the public or others would support you but when it comes down to it nobody cares.
Get this thing done and get a vote

 

[swamt]

Are you paying any attention? The fight is about Scope. And the IAMNPF is completely in the hands of whatever the IAM and the Company want to do with it anyway. The TWU Members are not being considered for inclusion in the IAMNPF at all period. And you’re not getting a match of 12%.

Just like ours was. At least AMFA was able to save our scope language.

Scope is where over time the Company is looking to offset any gains they provide to us.

We just saw a prime example of how that works in the AMFA agreement. AMFA wanted a little more in wages than what was being offered so the way that was provided was by allowing the Company to offshore the work they weren’t already doing anyway.

They essentially shifted the already cheaper work done at a US based MRO to a Foreign facility and AMFA (The Membership) took the proceeds for themselves.

Your post is a bit vague. Remember weezal, at SWA the lines moving internationally are the ones that SWA was out bidded by United (I think United). As soon as SWA found they lost the eight lines in USA FBO they started working frantically looking where to put those lines. There was no room within the states for eight lines which all explains why United way over bidded for the labor hours just so they could get their foot in the doors. It worked to United favor. Therefore the only place SWA could turn to for all eight lines was overseas. Hate see them go that route but they actually had no choice. The AMFA membership fully understood what exactly was going on hence the overwhelming 95% YES vote. Now, although these lines of maint did go internationally they are still no changes in the scope language of our contract what-so-ever.
The mechanics at SWA were finally made whole and then some. If you really wanna call it to pay for the contract then so be it. You know full well SWA didn't need the outsourcing to pay for the contract. They simply overpaid making us whole because the word from GK was get it done no matter what, so they overpaid about 15 million to secure a contract and move on.

Now weezal, let's see how bad this asso blows scope for all their groups involved, NOT just one group. You gonna look real bad if this asso gives the scope they are asking. That would make AMFA look so much better at both SWA and Alaska when they get their JCBA. You been hammering AMFA from day one and AMFA just returned the best contract increases out there with full retro. We will be waiting to see what your little ole asso does for you guys soon, or rather, in 7 years...

 

[WeAAsles]

Injunction? No one is doing Field Trips?

 

[WeAAsles]

The only way the company changes its position on scope is a compromise on something else that is being offered which can be a number of things mostly negative,
Which continues the stalemate and this could go on for years because of maybe 500 or 1000 jobs through attrition.

It’s far more than 500 or 1000 jobs when it’s spread out to all the groups in Negotiations. And it’s also about all the ambiguous language and multiple other items as well.

You should watch ALL of the videos concerning ALL the groups so you can understand ALL the pieces of the puzzle that are not fitting in place.

 

[V.O. Reason]

It’s far more than 500 or 1000 jobs when it’s spread out to all the groups in Negotiations. And it’s also about all the ambiguous language and multiple other items as well.

You should watch ALL of the videos concerning ALL the groups so you can understand ALL the pieces of the puzzle that are not fitting in place.

Job attrition happens in every merger that’s ever happened.
As a group not one person has lost their job and the company has stated more than once nobody will who currently is under contract will loose their job. .
The longer this stalemate continues I doubt that promise will remain. So you and others are risking a lot on your hardline stance. It’s starting to look like Eastern all over again and well we all know how well that turned out

 

[WeAAsles]

Job attrition happens in every merger that’s ever happened.
As a group not one person has lost their job and the company has stated more than once nobody will who currently is under contract will loose their job. .
The longer this stalemate continues I doubt that promise will remain. So you and others are risking a lot on your hardline stance. It’s starting to look like Eastern all over again and well we all know how well that turned out

The Association position is very simple. They want now just to maintain the headcount that exists today. And the protection language is irrelevant if under “Force Majeur” the Company can use any excuse they want to toss protection in the trash can.

In 2003 NWA used the SARS incident to call Force Majeur laying off thousands among their workforce. Who’s to say they wouldn’t use that trigger again if there were issues in the Middle East such as what’s happening currently with Iran?

Perhaps you’re a little too trusting of the Company and what their intentions really are.

And this is far from any Eastern Airlines situation although bringing up that story does feed the Boogeyman under the bed I guess.

And as far as attrition goes. Sorry we already gave at the office more than once. There’s no more blood left in those stones.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The only way the company changes its position on scope is a compromise on something else that is being offered

the assoc. already apparently compromised on profit sharing. this is what the company told us...and changing to a formula that would increase our potential payments was never offered by our stingy company.

all i hear about is scope, but as laa, i can't believe that money isn't being brought up or that flag doesn't seem to be flown by the twu part the assoc.

the company gave a very nice sweetener to AMTs, matching southwest's recent contract and the company wants to compensate all assoc. lus a further $3k and an additional year on their superior/cheaper insurance for the pain of coming over to my insurance.

so, where is the sweetener for laa FSC?????

3% more than delta on DOS (delta not even highest paid fleet) and 2% a year over the duration is totally ridiculous/unacceptable if the profit sharing formula isn't changed. the ticket agents have gotten and will get 2.5% increases the last 2 years of their deal.

when some in the assoc. say we are 'close', that is unsettling to me. the company will no doubt get all on laa insurance, change the c/c language and more AMT outsourcing and some fleet outsourcing, we deserve more than a bag of shells in exchange from the company...the company getting hardcore concessions from us after raking in billions the past 6 years.

i'm not familiar with title 2 outsourcing and/or if title 2 & stores get raises with us, or similar to title 1 AMT.

some AMTs i know, are already itching to vote after the company offered the AMTs a very nice piece of candy. i really don't blame them..

 

[1986Mekanic]

That could be very possible? And that’s why that language needs to be clarified. But I also don’t “think” it means they can stop making the contributions? Again I don’t “think”?

#NOAMBIQUOUSLANGUAGE.

Go and listen to the podcast on benefits and then read the company's proposal on 401k match. The very last sentence

 

[1986Mekanic]

Article 30 M&R
The Company reserves the right to amend the American 401(k) Plan at the 42 Company’s sole discretion.

The American 401(k) Plan is not incorporated in this Agreement.

 

[WeAAsles]

Go and listen to the podcast on benefits and then read the company's proposal on 401k match. The very last sentence

I have.

 

[1986Mekanic]

I have.

Great,,, now if we could get all the rest of them to educate themselves, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to want a "crappy agreement" to vote on.

 

[WeAAsles]

the assoc. already apparently compromised on profit sharing. this is what the company told us...and changing to a formula that would increase our potential payments was never offered by our stingy company.

all i hear about is scope, but as laa, i can't believe that money isn't being brought up or that flag doesn't seem to be flown by the twu part the assoc.

the company gave a very nice sweetener to AMTs, matching southwest's recent contract and the company wants to compensate all assoc. lus a further $3k and an additional year on their superior/cheaper insurance for the pain of coming over to my insurance.

so, where is the sweetener for laa FSC?????

3% more than delta on DOS (delta not even highest paid fleet) and 2% a year over the duration is totally ridiculous/unacceptable if the profit sharing formula isn't changed. the ticket agents have gotten and will get 2.5% increases the last 2 years of their deal.

when some in the assoc. say we are 'close', that is unsettling to me. the company will no doubt get all on laa insurance, change the c/c language and more AMT outsourcing and some fleet outsourcing, we deserve more than a bag of shells in exchange from the company...the company getting hardcore concessions from us after raking in billions the past 6 years.

i'm not familiar with title 2 outsourcing and/or if title 2 & stores get raises with us, or similar to title 1 AMT.

some AMTs i know, are already itching to vote after the company offered the AMTs a very nice piece of candy. i really don't blame them..

The Association has not relented on the Profit Sharing as part of the conversation on wages. Right now the main focus (fight) is about Scope. Everything else will come in due time. And don’t focus on the Company “proposals” as absolutes either. The majority of those proposals are not being accepted.

Don’t think ANY areas have been forgotten either because they haven’t been.