American Airlines: Time for labor deals dwindling

[Buck]

The national seniority list was about pilots, not any other group and why would a FAA approval be required for such a list?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The members would decide whether seniority is based on longevity or occupational seniority. Done!

Within a carrier, generally it's already that way. Now suppose you've got 5 years as a pilot with B6 or F9 and are about ready to get a captain bid (with 50% pay increase, more retirement savings, etc) - will you really want every new opening to go to people from other airlines with 10-15-20 years of service, keeping you where you are for years to come? Or would you say "Hell No" to a national seniority list?

Then, even if all union members agreed which union would represent them. Same craft/class, working for a single employer - the outsourcing agency. So the unions would either have to fight over representing the group or say "Hell No" to a national seniority list.

And if you get past those two obstacles there's the carriers to deal with. You've got to convince them to get their pilots/mechanics/whoever from only the central source and give them their seniority on the national list plus all carriers change their FAA mandated policy/procedures to a single standard OR train the experienced new hires to their policy/procedures. What are the chances of the first happening? If the latter, why would a carrier spend the money training a new hire who'll be around anywhere from a few months to a few years until another carrier offers better pay/benefits/QOL/whatever, when for the same money they can hire a younger person who'll be around 20-25-30 years?

It sounds good in theory, especially for those who have 20-25-30 years in the industry so would be in the upper part of any national list. But from a prospective new hire's point of view it shifts all new openings to the worst carrier in the industry and from the carrier's point of view it takes decisions on who to hire out of their hands and costs them money.

Jim

 

[strikeforce]

To get that accomplished every airline would have to have the same flight, ground and maintenance operation, that wont ever happen.

They all would have to have the same exact plan of business with the FAA and its approval.

Thats a monumental task as Jim pointed out.

why would they have to be the same? You mean to tell me that it's that much different flying a 777 at UA than AA or DL??

An LMP qualified mechanic at UA performs the same return to service test on a 767 that an AA mechanic does, right?

The basis of going to ONE staffing agency would be to seperate the airline workers from actually working for that specific airline, thus preventing the company from taking it out on the workers when they can't compete. If that airline goes out of business....no biggie, the staffing agency could go out and find work for those workers facing rif's.

 

[700UW]

Apparently you dont know how the Airlines and the FAA work.

Each airline has its own maintenance program with the FAA, every airline doesnt do maintenance the same way.

Why is it that you have to go to Gen Fam before your allowed to do contract maintenance for another carrier?

Cause they do things different. Different engines, components, etc....

At US east mechanics were not allowed to work on West Planes until they went to training as different engines, same for West working East.

Pilots cant just jump from plane to plane type without training and being qualified.

That is why Boeing and Airbus model numbers for example 737-222, is carrier specific etc...

Jim explained quote well, I think.

 

[BoeingBoy]

why would they have to be the same? You mean to tell me that it's that much different flying a 777 at UA than AA or DL??

Believe it or not, yes. While Boeing puts out check lists for every airplane type they manufacture nearly every airline customizes it to their own needs/policies. And that just one of many differences. That's why retread pilots (like those furloughed who get a job at a different carrier) go through the exact same training as someone that's never flown a commercial transport. Everything from paperwork (releases, wt/balance/etc) to checklists to scheduling reserve time free of duty and on and on are different from carrier to carrier and pilots/FA's (and I assume to some degree mechanics/rampers/CSA's/etc) have to be trained on an airline's specific policies/procedures. Even when merging two airlines together it can be a fight over which has the "best" policy/procedure when policies/procedures are synchronized - imagine doing that for all the carriers in the U.S.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Well said Jim.

I was a trainer for Utility when we got the Airbus planes, and totally different procedures than Boeings, and I had to rewrite the Aircraft Appearance Manual and parts of the GMM when we got the planes.

 

[Buck]

AMERICAN AIRlINES UNION PRESIDENT SEES FUTURE WITHOUT PENSIONS

By Josh Eidelson / March 5, 2012 / Uncategorized /Leave a comment

At In These Times:



Weeks after American Airlines’ parent company AMR submitted a bankruptcy proposal to its three unions, labor and management say time is running out to reach negotiated settlements. Any unions that don’t reach deals with AMR may have their new contract terms, and the number of layoffs, set directly by a bankruptcy judge. The president of the largest of these unions, the Transport Workers Union’s Jim Little, says he expects negotiations will be either completed or abandoned within the next two weeks.

Jim Little


I don't know Jim I would give it 50-50% chance?

 

[Buck]

Does anyone know if the mechanics hired to work on the aircraft, engines and components and support and are in company job functions such as safety, ASAP and the working together process are going to be susceptible to the RIF?

 

[AAOHNO]

Does anyone know if the mechanics hired to work on the aircraft, engines and components and support and are in company job functions such as safety, ASAP and the working together process are going to be susceptible to the RIF?

If a mechanic can demonstrate the ability to safely create enough vacuum for the compartment of informer's Electron Beam Welder, while working together with Buck on Biting his box at the Motel 6, followed by a properly filled out ASAP form, then you will be granted TWU International immunity to the RIF.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't know Jim I would give it 50-50% chance?

I'd give him almost no chance unless the union capitulates. I do think AA will file it's 1113 motions (if necessary) within a month, and possibly within 2 weeks. But then it has to be scheduled for one of the hearing dates, while allowing anyone interested in filing in support or opposition time to do so. Meanwhile, negotiations go on if necessary.

The only potential wrinkle is if AA files for temporary changes (1113e??), which is usually done before negotiations start but doesn't have to be. Now that negotiations have started, however, there would be no time saved by the Judge granting temporary changes since the motion would still have to be scheduled for a hearing and time allowed for anyone to file in support or opposition.

I don't have the future hearing dates in front of me, but probably the middle of next month is the earliest there would be a hearing.

Jim

 

[Buck]

If a mechanic can demonstrate the ability to safely create enough vacuum for the compartment of informer's Electron Beam Welder, while working together with Buck on Biting his box at the Motel 6, followed by a properly filled out ASAP form, then you will be granted TWU International immunity to the RIF.

You funny, but can I just have immunity from the TWU's political affiliation?

 

[700UW]

Become a dues objector.

 

[Buck]

Become a dues objector.

Been there. How do I know if the union is telling the truth?

 

[BigMac]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news%2Favd%2F2012%2F03%2F06%2F02.xml&headline=AMR+May+Seek+Court+Intervention+In+Labor+Deals
Looks like the company never planned on anything coming to a vote. They were planning on having the judge approve their proposals all along. (Understatement of the year)

 

[Deleted member 14439]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news%2Favd%2F2012%2F03%2F06%2F02.xml&headline=AMR+May+Seek+Court+Intervention+In+Labor+Deals
Looks like the company never planned on anything coming to a vote. They were planning on having the judge approve their proposals all along. (Understatement of the year)

Ya think?