American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[Rogallo]

the company can ask, doesn't mean they can impose concessions.

What about Force Majeure?

1. unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

So I was wrong about a second hit or did another hit come after they filed for BK? Was there another round of job cuts or was it just continuing the job cuts after BK?
Also so I believe the union said they had to agree to the cuts in pay in order to stop the jobs losses (save jobs) but they still cut jobs too so maybe that is where I am thinking of a second hit after the pay cuts came layoffs after BK filing.

i know that you don't work for aa and i don't fault you for not knowing what occurred.

the union (twu) did not agree to have us vote on concessions in 2003 to save jobs.

the company threatened to file for BK in the spring of 2003, after every other legacy carrier filed. the company said they would not file BK if ALL the unions agreed to concessions. this includes pilots and F/As. the ticket agents were non-union at that time. if any group voted 'no', they said they would file BK.

by not filing for BK, the obvious benefit was that the pensions would remain untouched and continue to accrue.

the unions agreed to a vote. it was the F/As that originally voted 'no', then they voted again under some pretext that i have forgotten. their next vote was 'yes'.

i voted 'no'.

my take is that the unions can hide behind "we let you decide" and many that voted 'yes', only did so to protect their pensions.

as it turned out, the company file for BK in the fall of 2011 and tried to terminate the pensions, but the govt. pushed back and the pensions were frozen. this is where we are today. as laa. we stopped accruing pension time in 2012.

 

[1AA]

nowhere in that article did it say parker/aa are considering concessions. play on words to stir up amfa support.

His quote and I'm paraphrasing was we do not have to layoff 20,000 employees. We will work with the unions and be creative.

Being creative without layoffs? Goal is to cut costs. It's obvious they don't need 20,000 layoffs because they want to work with the unions in being creative. How do you save money without layoffs? You change work rules, reduce compensation and that is being creative. I believe the 20,000 layoff number is high and a threat to the unions and membership to accept concessions or jobs will be lost. Do they really need 20,000 heads cut? Obviously not if they want to pay less to save money. The TWU is about saving heads and dues. Don't forget it's a business. I can't explain it any easier than that. If you still think that the company won't approach the unions for concessions then your living in a different world or never experienced union negotiations good and bad.

 

[dfw gen]

if amfa gets voted in, no more posts like that.

nowhere in that article did it say parker/aa are considering concessions. play on words to stir up amfa support.

i'm not an AMT. i have no stance one way or another. i will say the twu laid down (seniority issues/contract) for the iam after the merger and based on that, i'd support a card drive. the junior AMTs i do know, tell me they will not sacrifice their jobs so top 50% of AMTs can get a $3/hr raise.

i don't say anything one way or another to them - though i understand their reasoning, lower amounts of AMTs/ratio per aircraft at southwest.

those that push for amfa need to convince the junior AMTs, not me or you, about amfa vs. twu.

Trust me from experience you DONT want the twu negotiating concessions. If they do hold on. If the company asks for 10% the twu woll happily settle for 17%. With no snap back. Yes they are that dumb. Its happened before. 2003 and 2011.

 

[V.O. Reason]

His quote and I'm paraphrasing was we do not have to layoff 20,000 employees. We will work with the unions and be creative.

Being creative without layoffs? Goal is to cut costs. It's obvious they don't need 20,000 layoffs because they want to work with the unions in being creative. How do you save money without layoffs? You change work rules, reduce compensation and that is being creative. I believe the 20,000 layoff number is high and a threat to the unions and membership to accept concessions or jobs will be lost. Do they really need 20,000 heads cut? Obviously not if they want to pay less to save money. The TWU is about saving heads and dues. Don't forget it's a business. I can't explain it any easier than that. If you still think that the company won't approach the unions for concessions then your living in a different world or never experienced union negotiations good and bad.

Just say no to pay concessions
We all are told compensation doesn’t mean money but the entirety of the agreement.
So keep the pay rates and if necessary make some other changes

 

[Rogallo]

Full Pay To The Last Day!

 

[1AA]

Just say no to pay concessions
We all are told compensation doesn’t mean money but the entirety of the agreement.
So keep the pay rates and if necessary make some other changes

Assuming we will vote on it if and when it reaches that point. So far things are quiet from both sides.

 

[Rogallo]

Assuming we will vote on it if and when it reaches that point. So far things are quiet from both sides.

It's the proverbial calm before the storm!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Assuming we will vote on it if and when it reaches that point. So far things are quiet from both sides.

1AA, Let's hope that the M&R group gets enough cards to remove the ASSociation before the summer is over. I hope that you and the rest of the membership knows that if any concessions are given back to AA, IMHO will be without our blessing, and they the (ASSOC) will come up with some type of excuse saying that it will be in our best interest.

 

[Living in Reality]

I listened to Parkers speech on the Town Hall Meeting video, Video 3, 4 min in he starts talking numbers. He also said they have been talking with the unions. Using his numbers of 80,000 he said even with the current reductions, people already taking LOA's and early outs, they still have too many people. Once again taking his numbers he said they have to reduce 30% this fall. Apply 30% to the pilots, F/A's and M&R, the first cutoff date for M&R will be around 4-10-01, the second wave by next summer of 20% is around March 1997. If I am wrong, let me know and where, don't be a dick, there are a lot of people who are scared right now and they have every right to be. The one thing you all need to be worried about is the Bump and roll of layoff, gone are the days of protection and red circling of hubs and bases. Just because you survived the first round, does not mean you will get bumped by someone in the system but, you can bump someone else. welcome to the new AA!

 

[CremaDiLimone]

let's see...

delta had about 14,500 pilots as of may 2020. they just mailed layoff warning letters to 2,558 pilots.

that's about 18% of it's pilots. we're starting to get an idea of the numbers.

 

[1AA]

1AA, Let's hope that the M&R group gets enough cards to remove the ASSociation before the summer is over. I hope that you and the rest of the membership knows that if any concessions are given back to AA, IMHO will be without our blessing, and they the (ASSOC) will come up with some type of excuse saying that it will be in our best interest.

I fear another 2003 again. 99% of us can not and will not be around 17 years from now waiting to get back what the association will take from us.

 

[BigTex]

I listened to Parkers speech on the Town Hall Meeting video, Video 3, 4 min in he starts talking numbers. He also said they have been talking with the unions. Using his numbers of 80,000 he said even with the current reductions, people already taking LOA's and early outs, they still have too many people. Once again taking his numbers he said they have to reduce 30% this fall. Apply 30% to the pilots, F/A's and M&R, the first cutoff date for M&R will be around 4-10-01, the second wave by next summer of 20% is around March 1997. If I am wrong, let me know and where, don't be a dick, there are a lot of people who are scared right now and they have every right to be. The one thing you all need to be worried about is the Bump and roll of layoff, gone are the days of protection and red circling of hubs and bases. Just because you survived the first round, does not mean you will get bumped by someone in the system but, you can bump someone else. welcome to the new AA!

The 20% is not in addition to the already chopped 30%. It is to imply the necessity of more people recalled by next summer. Next summer they would need 80% of the current seniority list. This fall they need 70% of seniority list. The 30% reduction will not apply to all workgroups. Some shall be much lower as he stated i.e. Pilots

 

[eolesen]

let's see...

delta had about 14,500 pilots as of may 2020. they just mailed layoff warning letters to 2,558 pilots.

that's about 18% of it's pilots. we're starting to get an idea of the numbers.

I suspect that 18% is after voluntary retirements. I've heard that volunteers have been averaging 10-12% depending on the workgroup, which correlates to that 18% getting WARN letters.

 

[swamt]

Assuming we will vote on it if and when it reaches that point. So far things are quiet from both sides.

A little too quiet IMO. There is no doubt the co. and the asso has met and talked about options as other airlines have too. The prob. here is the asso is not sharing "ANY" of that info with the membership like AMFA did here at SWA with us. That's the part that worries me, hopefully they don't pull another LOA without membership approval again. If you all have AMFA, there would be "no doubt" that you would vote on any changes to the contract, period, ANY...

It's the proverbial calm before the storm!

Indeed. And why it is imperative that this vote for AMFA happens ASAP. Hopefully there is no LOA's done behind closed doors and forced upon the membership before AMFA gets in. You all know the history of these two unions in this asso. I would highly recommend that the cards signing get done asap...