American Turn Around Plan

410OhOne

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Dec 30, 2002
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AAquila wrote:
An early out package that will allow 5000 top pay mech., title II cleaners, fsc and other TWU rep workers.They will be replaced with lower starting rate employees.
The savings in vac pay, differences hi lo rates, and productivity minus cost of incentives ($20000) per employees estimated relief $168 million.
Does anyone have anything in writing or hear anything about further discussions related to early out for senior mechanics?
 

flygal4500

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Jan 6, 2003
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Does anyone have anything in writing or hear anything about further discussions related to early out for senior mechanics?

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I've asked about it -- was told early outs are too expensive in terms of cash out the door, plus you lose too many of the old farts (especially mechanics). They learned that when they gave the package in '95.

 

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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I don't think they need any early out incentives. I know of 4 mechanics at JFK alon that are leaving within the next 2 months due to fear of getting screwed. They also said that the retirement office is swamped with retirement requests! The company gets an early out and it doesn't cost them a dime!
 
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410OhOne

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Dec 30, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/22/2003 7:53:27 AM Hopeful wrote:

I don't think they need any early out incentives. I know of 4 mechanics at JFK alon that are leaving within the next 2 months due to fear of getting screwed. They also said that the retirement office is swamped with retirement requests! The company gets an early out and it doesn't cost them a dime!
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[/blockquote]

As short as possible please educate me as to what a senior mechanic or a mechanic at the door step (or foot of the grave) has to worry about and why the retirement office is swamped?
 
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bagsmasher

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An early out package for 5000 senior TWU members would assure many "yes" votes when they bring concessions to a vote. (I am assuming it would have to have the members approval.) I would bet that would get the approval of at least the 5,000, plus many others (possibly 10,000 total?) who would like to move up the seniority scale. Why would you vote "no" to whatever concessions they come up with, since you will be out the door?

I am sure nobody here cares, but I can tell you right now my vote is "NO". I am too young to retire, and too pissed off at AA to be cooperative.
 

RV4

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Aug 20, 2002
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A Mechanic's retirement benefit is based on a 4 year average in pay exluding overtime.

Thus, a paycut would lower that average. Each day worked under the paycut scale, lowers the average and thus the benefit.
 

Hopeful

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Dec 21, 2002
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I would imagine they don't want to wait and see their pensions messed with. Or they just don't want to deal with the BS anymore!
 
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410OhOne

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Dec 30, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 2/23/2003 8:38:34 PM RV4 wrote:

A Mechanic's retirement benefit is based on a 4 year average in pay exluding overtime.

Thus, a paycut would lower that average. Each day worked under the paycut scale, lowers the average and thus the benefit.
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[/blockquote]

First I heard of this, that is a little positive news for us junior guys. I wonder if the company will wait out the retirement process or just swing the axe then have to call us all back? In your best estimate what is the order of events you see happening. I know GW on the trigger could change a lot of things.

Put the following in order of occurence:

1. Bankruptcy
2. Concessions
3. Massive Layoffs
4. UAL Liquidating
5. AMR Liquidating
6. WAR
 

flyhigh

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Jan 4, 2003
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Bags,

If you're too pissed to be cooperative...why not leave and work somewhere that you will be happy??? Seems dumb, even moronic, to think that by staying you can be both happy AND exact any measurable revenge on your enemy (American Airlines).

As for the early out...it is a costly venture, and thus might not AA's best option given the continued need to conserve cash.
 
[blockquote]
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On 2/23/2003 8:38:34 PM RV4 wrote:

A Mechanic's retirement benefit is based on a 4 year average in pay exluding overtime.

Thus, a paycut would lower that average. Each day worked under the paycut scale, lowers the average and thus the benefit.
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[/blockquote]

Article 40 from the blue book says it is the best 48 of the previous 120 months. That's also the same language for agents and management. So, the averages will be affected, but only to the extent that the new max drops below the low for the past 4 years.

Is it worth discussing with a retirement advisor? Absolutely. But until the details are known, I don't know that I'd be rushing in with my paperwork...

For someone over 60, I can see why they might be considering retirement, but for someone under 60, I can't. Your pension is reduced by 3% for every year under age 60, assuming you meet the length of service and age requirements.

The math says it would take a 12% pay cut to offset that 3% penalty for someone who is 59, and a 24% pay cut to offset the 6% reduction for someone who is 58, etc. So, for someone who is 55 or 56, I don't know that it is even worth considering a 15% reduction in pension based on fear, uncertainty and doubt alone...

Disclaimer: this is not retirement advice by any means. Just personal opinions.
 

Hopeful

Veteran
Dec 21, 2002
5,998
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Let's not forget that in March, legislation will be introduced in Congress that will allow corporations to change over to a cash balance fund. Now, corporations can and do have this type of pension, but the legislation will prevent age discrimination lawsuits. This new pension formula favors a younger person over an older one.
 
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bagsmasher

Guest
"Bags,

If you're too pissed to be cooperative...why not leave and work somewhere that you will be happy??? Seems dumb, even moronic, to think that by staying you can be both happy AND exact any measurable revenge on your enemy (American Airlines)."



Believe me, I am working with a goal of leaving AA. I am both learning another trade, and building a business plan to start another business. Hopefully I will get laid off, and AA will pay me severance, unused vacation, and the $12,500. If that happens, I will jump on it, and use the money to start my new business. Why in the world would I want to stick around until this ship sinks? What is sad is that I used to be a very loyal AAer. That was before 4-10-01. Now my dream is getting laid off, before AA goes under.
 
Aug 20, 2002
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BAGS;
I wish you well , in what ever you decide.

Having said that, you know VERY well, that your's truly, has never touched a drop of company KOOL-AID.

As I post this, perhaps your catching me in a unusual positive frame of mind.

BUT(and I can't offer you any concrete proof, to back up what I'm about to say), I get a strong feeling AA is'nt going into BK, and in the near future AA stock will make a lot of smart people, a lot of "scratch" $$$$$.
I predict that after the "unpleasantries" with Iraq, that this industry, is going to BEGIN to climb out of "this" Hole.If I had a "spare' $10,000/$20,000(which I DON'T,), I'd be down to my local broker buying all the AMR, I possibly could !!!

Just a hunch bags, but one I think I'm right about.

As usual with AA, TIME WILL TELL.

Regards,
NH/BB's