AMP....What a joke!

[strikeforce]

With that being said, why would you even consider a union that favors the company and not the worker? We are closer than you think with this card drive, we are focused, and we will get it done.

I'm not favoring a company sponsored union. But, I'm also not losing sight of the fact that we've been at these negotiations for 3 years, and if we elect a new union, negotiations will most likely be set aside for maybe another year, and then once they do rathet up and get up to speed we may be talking about 1 to 2 years after that. that will bring us to about 2014. eight years of taking it in the shorts, plus 6 more of nothing. if that happens, you want to talk about disgruntled and down right angry. not good when your line of work is safety sensitive. either way I LOSE! We needed to get something done yesterday. Get my drift!
I hate the TWU. I also hate the fact that we're trying to change the agent in the middle of the ballgame.

 

[TWU informer]

The day the next contract proposal comes out,we will know if the twu is done.
If they drag it out much longer we need to get rid of them and MOVE ON!

The biggest flaw in this drive has been the connection or link between contract negotiations and replacement of the most docile and company boot licking union on the planet.

The TWU is flawed by it's Constitution, and its history of failure. The TWU philosophy in general is flawed in that it trust the company and believes everything the comapny says and they have never hired a legitimate firm to contradict and educate the membership about these misrepresentations.

Now the Teamsters (IBT) the superior union, has helped the TWU to get a better agreement than the TA that failed, but the flawed organization has done nothing to change.

Regardless of the outcome of our current negotiations, the flaws within the TWU are still present and we will be stuck with the same concerns next negotations.

 

[FWAAA]

Given the long history of negotiating sub-standard agreements at AA (except for the ill-timed 2001 contract), I was certain that the membership would not want the TWU to negotiate yet another. Yet the failed TA was negotiated by, yep, you guessed it, the same old TWU and its incompetent negotiators. Once again the company's negotiators ran roughshod over the TWU negotiating team. The membership rejected the loser TA but still hasn't fired its agent, the TWU. It's mind-boggling to read AA employees write that it might not be the best idea to replace the TWU in the middle of these negotiations. If not now, when? After the TWU negotiates yet another loser TA? Replace your loser union already.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Oh, it's coming FW! It's coming!------- I can feel it in my bones!!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

So they pushed AMFA, yet voted to put TWA at the bottom! When I vote years before not to put AMFA/Ozark at the bottom! I still remember when AMFA came to KC, ( I was AMFA surporter at the time) I ask them point blank if they vote for us! He wouldn't even look me in the eye, just said, we could work something out! And I should trust them!! Have not seen one flyer about AMP at Dallas!

There was no vote when TWA was aquired out of bankruptcy 10 years ago. The iam sold you out, and from talking to some of your KC buds doing time on the rock, you guys had your chance to get rid of the iam but KC screwed it up for everyone. Almost sounds like the AA drive and the 2003 concessions with KC.
And Ozark...please that was 25 years ago.
Get over it...there is no shortage of your laid off buddies running back for one of the many openings around the system.

 

[MCI transplant]

There was no vote when TWA was aquired out of bankruptcy 10 years ago. The iam sold you out, and from talking to some of your KC buds doing time on the rock, you guys had your chance to get rid of the iam but KC screwed it up for everyone. Almost sounds like the AA drive and the 2003 concessions with KC.
And Ozark...please that was 25 years ago.
Get over it...there is no shortage of your laid off buddies running back for one of the many openings around the system.

<_< ------ Hey Tex-Mech, ever wonder if the 2003 "yes" vote here at MCI, may have been influenced, just a little, by people like you!?----- How much has it cost you Baba!?

 

[aapitbull]

First, I'm not calling you or your organizers a joke, instead I'm calling the selling or marketing process AMP has employed in order to win the business of the membership, a joke. It's quite obvious that a financially stable organization will benefit the membership more than a start-up organization, especially if you intend on hiring professional negotiators and other professional consultants during negotiations. The membership is going on 8 years without real wages, and the last thing the membership wants to hear from an organization trying to displace the current agent on the field is that it doesn't have the resources to finance negotiations, let alone making a trip to ORD.
With that said, I don't have a problem displacing the TWU with AMP. However, AMP must be able to persuade a group of disgruntled, money hungry, and yet passive, individuals called AA mechanics that AMP will do a better job at the table representing ALL parties. I say passive because many are sympathetic to the TWU for providing stable employment and keeping jobs, that perhaps would get farmed out, in TUL and the bases, in exchange for lower wages and benefits, as compared to their counterparts at SWA and UPS. Look, the membership has been beaten so bad that people just don't care anymore. They have lost interest in negotiations, and don't even attend union meetings. To be frank, if the membership really cared about displacing the TWU, AMP probably would have had 10,000 cards in the first week. AMP must portray itself as the savior, and I just don't see it. Probably because most don't know who you are, and want to see a face behind the name.

I have no interest in getting into a debate with you about if it is me or AMP that you have a problem with the facts are unless you know someone who is independently wealthly who would like to start a union then the fianancial problems are what they are as far as representing goes the current dues base of our group is well over a half a million a month even more if the company begins to hire or the stock clerks join, so you see if you where to elect a new union money would not be a issue for long. As far as the rest of your post goes I to am dismayed by the lack of fight that our group has displayed given the fact that all that has been ask is to sign a card and bring it to a vote.


My offer still stands we will come to ord if you think we can get people to come and hear what we have to say let me know if you have a time and place we could even meet at someones house or in a parking lot

 

[aapitbull]

<_< ------ Hey Tex-Mech, ever wonder if the 2003 "yes" vote here at MCI, may have been influenced, just a little, by people like you!?----- How much has it cost you Baba!?

To all the TWA guys listen up I am going to say this one last time over 2 thousand IAM cards where signed and sent in to either the KC or St Louis local I don't remember which its been a long time, the IAM cut a deal with the TWU not to run the election had it been run I believe the IAM would have won and you would have kept your senority. do not complain to me about what the TWU did to you or the fact that you fell for it and decided not to support the drive to AMFA as far as the 2003 vote goes it would have passed without your yes votes so really MCI was not the decideing factor.

I was one of the guys that came to MCI to try to persuade you to join the fight and when asked about the senoirty issue I said that even under AMFA it would be up to the members and while I thought dovetail would be the way to go that did not mean I could speak for the majority but that we would work something out like a fence or other mechnism so that in the end their would be one list! the thing I find most interesting is what is left of MCI is at AFW and DWH and most still have not signed cards even more interesting than that is alot still think Grdon Clark is ther savior well we see where Gordon is don't we.

 

[strikeforce]

Given the long history of negotiating sub-standard agreements at AA (except for the ill-timed 2001 contract), I was certain that the membership would not want the TWU to negotiate yet another. Yet the failed TA was negotiated by, yep, you guessed it, the same old TWU and its incompetent negotiators. Once again the company's negotiators ran roughshod over the TWU negotiating team. The membership rejected the loser TA but still hasn't fired its agent, the TWU. It's mind-boggling to read AA employees write that it might not be the best idea to replace the TWU in the middle of these negotiations. If not now, when? After the TWU negotiates yet another loser TA? Replace your loser union already.

Are you willing to wait 2 to 3 more years for an agreement? I'm sure you'll find most will not. Next negotiations are scheduled for March 7-11, why doesn't AMP schedule protests outside the hotel to show our displeasure with TWU & AA? Let me know & I'll get some guys from ORD to fly in and rally with you guys.

 

[strikeforce]

The biggest flaw in this drive has been the connection or link between contract negotiations and replacement of the most docile and company boot licking union on the planet.

The TWU is flawed by it's Constitution, and its history of failure. The TWU philosophy in general is flawed in that it trust the company and believes everything the comapny says and they have never hired a legitimate firm to contradict and educate the membership about these misrepresentations.

Now the Teamsters (IBT) the superior union, has helped the TWU to get a better agreement than the TA that failed, but the flawed organization has done nothing to change.

Regardless of the outcome of our current negotiations, the flaws within the TWU are still present and we will be stuck with the same concerns next negotations.

Can't do much when you're meeting once a month. Need to put heat on the mediator!
You're right, the TWU is structurally flawed. Shame on all of us for allowing this to continue. Again, WE are the union, and most don't give a rat's ass about the TWU, or about bringing another union on the field. Most are disenchanted, and have moved on to other jobs while CSing off their entire shiftbid. Other are just grateful they have a job. Like most that post on this forum, I'm motivated in recouping the $140K AA & TWU stole from me. I'm willing to go out on a limb and give AMP a chance, but there are many that are content with the status quo. AMP has a big problem attracting attention, at least in ORD.

 

[odie01]

Can't do much when you're meeting once a month. Need to put heat on the mediator!
You're right, the TWU is structurally flawed. Shame on all of us for allowing this to continue. Again, WE are the union, and most don't give a rat's ass about the TWU, or about bringing another union on the field. Most are disenchanted, and have moved on to other jobs while CSing off their entire shiftbid. Other are just grateful they have a job. Like most that post on this forum, I'm motivated in recouping the $140K AA & TWU stole from me. I'm willing to go out on a limb and give AMP a chance, but there are many that are content with the status quo. AMP has a big problem attracting attention, at least in ORD.

AMP depends on guys like you and I that care about the future and understands what has happened in the past. If your willing to give AMP a chance, why don't you educate the ones that have given up on their careers, and let them know that their is an option. The way I look at it, I would rather stay under the existing contract than give up AMT slots, retirement, ect, ect. The only thing we can do right now, to show the company and twu that we are not happy, is to sign an AMP card, and bring this to a vote

 

[MCI transplant]

To all the TWA guys listen up I am going to say this one last time over 2 thousand IAM cards where signed and sent in to either the KC or St Louis local I don't remember which its been a long time, the IAM cut a deal with the TWU not to run the election had it been run I believe the IAM would have won and you would have kept your seniority. do not complain to me about what the TWU did to you or the fact that you fell for it and decided not to support the drive to AMFA as far as the 2003 vote goes it would have passed without your yes votes so really MCI was not the deciding factor.

I was one of the guys that came to MCI to try to persuade you to join the fight and when asked about the seniority issue I said that even under AMFA it would be up to the members and while I thought dovetail would be the way to go that did not mean I could speak for the majority but that we would work something out like a fence or other mechanism so that in the end their would be one list! the thing I find most interesting is what is left of MCI is at AFW and DWH and most still have not signed cards even more interesting than that is alot still think Gordon Clark is the savior well we see where Gordon is don't we.

<_< ----- Pit, I have no quarrel with you! I know "both" Unions screwed us! In fact I was at one of your AMFA information meetings here at MCI when the our Local Committee bust in trying to intimidate those who attended!------ But fact of the matter is, that after all these years people that bring up old wounds, are not helpful with todays problems! As for Gorden, I realize what he is, a what he was doing!------- Question!?------- What did the TWU have to give the IAM to convince them to back off?

 

[strikeforce]

AMP depends on guys like you and I that care about the future and understands what has happened in the past. If your willing to give AMP a chance, why don't you educate the ones that have given up on their careers, and let them know that their is an option. The way I look at it, I would rather stay under the existing contract than give up AMT slots, retirement, ect, ect. The only thing we can do right now, to show the company and twu that we are not happy, is to sign an AMP card, and bring this to a vote

we're trying. The AMP organizers are working hard selling this thing.

 

[eolesen]

Need to put heat on the mediator!

Yeah, that'll fix it. Not.

Those claiming it is the mediators fault must believe that he has superhero power over the two parties involved in negotiation, and outside the sessions, their hands are tied.

Fact is that nothing stops the two sides from continuing to talk except their unwillingness to do so without the mediator there.

 

[FWAAA]

Are you willing to wait 2 to 3 more years for an agreement? I'm sure you'll find most will not. Next negotiations are scheduled for March 7-11, why doesn't AMP schedule protests outside the hotel to show our displeasure with TWU & AA? Let me know & I'll get some guys from ORD to fly in and rally with you guys.

First, I'm not employed by AMR or any of its subsidiaries.

But I have read posts from the disenchanted on this site and its predecessors for more than 10 years. Sign another substandard contract with concessions or wait to get a decent contract? Retro takes care of the latter alternative but nothing cures the problems if you choose the former alternative.

What's the rush?