AMR on Moody's DEFAULT LIST

[Hopeful]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/10/news/econo...rce=yahoo_quote

 

[jimntx]

Wow, when things look blackest, you're always there with the voice of doom! Got any other news you could cheer me down with?

 

[Hopeful]

Wow, when things look blackest, you're always there with the voice of doom! Got any other news you could cheer me down with?

Don't blame me, blame MOODY's.......If it makes you feel any better, I believe all unions will fold like cheap suits when they are once again threatened with bankruptcy. This way the executives can hurt their arms patting themselves on their own backs because they screwed us again.

Since this company has no intention on bargaining in good faith, I say the best we could do is help keep the stock price down with poor employee morale and service so the executives will eventually feel the pinch.
Management's latest push to improve service and on time dependability will only benefit the heads of departments and higher ups. They will benefit in terms of compensation while the workers are all in mediation hoping for some scraps.
Keep service poor, stock price low until they get serious about negotiations.

 

[jimntx]

Problem with that approach...we might not stay in business long enough to bring them to their senses. Now, I know it is hard to kill an airline. Look how long it took to bury Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, some of the others. Even ATA limped along a lot longer than it should have.

However, the sentiment for "being too big to fail" is fading and the philosophy of "if they made stupid decisions, let them pay the price just like individuals have to" seems to be gaining supporters. Personally, even though I am a pinko, Communist, liberal, yellow-dog Democrat, my sympathies are with the second group. I would like this company to last at least 2 more years; so that I can get to 66 and collect my full Social Security (without having to do a job search in the interim ).

 

[Hopeful]

Problem with that approach...we might not stay in business long enough to bring them to their senses. Now, I know it is hard to kill an airline. Look how long it took to bury Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, some of the others. Even ATA limped along a lot longer than it should have.

However, the sentiment for "being too big to fail" is fading and the philosophy of "if they made stupid decisions, let them pay the price just like individuals have to" seems to be gaining supporters. Personally, even though I am a pinko, Communist, liberal, yellow-dog Democrat, my sympathies are with the second group. I would like this company to last at least 2 more years; so that I can get to 66 and collect my full Social Security (without having to do a job search in the interim ).

I wish you luck. I am just amazed at this company's drive to be #1 on time while refusing to negotiate in good faith with its workers. Quite hypocritical.
And before anyone reminds me how lucky I am to have a job, preach that to the executives who are one month away from "sharing" more of the gain.

 

[FWAAA]

In related grim news, WN CEO Gary Kelly tells investors today that unit revenue at WN fell 7% for the first week of March and that the airline industry may not have hit bottom yet:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090310/southwest_airlines.html?.v=1

Doesn't bode well for "restore and more." Or "restitution," or whatever the word of the day might be.

 

[Hopeful]

In related grim news, WN CEO Gary Kelly tells investors today that unit revenue at WN fell 7% for the first week of March and that the airline industry may not have hit bottom yet:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090310/southwest_airlines.html?.v=1

Doesn't bode well for "restore and more." Or "restitution," or whatever the word of the day might be.

You don't see Southwest employees suffering from all the "pain," do you FWAAA?

Unless, of course, you're an executive, which means you are exempt from from negative impact on the company.
It's truly amazing that FWAAA constantly criticizes the call for restore and more. He (or she) never seems to preach that gospel to the greedy executives.

 

[poplockanddropit]

Don't blame me, blame MOODY's.......If it makes you feel any better, I believe all unions will fold like cheap suits when they are once again threatened with bankruptcy. This way the executives can hurt their arms patting themselves on their own backs because they screwed us again.

Since this company has no intention on bargaining in good faith, I say the best we could do is help keep the stock price down with poor employee morale and service so the executives will eventually feel the pinch.
Management's latest push to improve service and on time dependability will only benefit the heads of departments and higher ups. They will benefit in terms of compensation while the workers are all in mediation hoping for some scraps.
Keep service poor, stock price low until they get serious about negotiations.

Open Mouth and insert foot.. Wasn't that long ago I posted this exact thing and i got horse whipped for it, now it looks like the blind can now see. The sad thing is, now, when companies file - there aren't the investors willing to throw money at companies needing the financing. I dare say, if AMR goes into bk, it will not be a pretty one. The unions should have smelled the coffee last time and told them to file. Instead they caved and the company got the concessions they wanted and they got to keep the most important negotiating tool of all - pensions.. So basically you will cave again to more concessions. It seems like the cycle in this industry is HOPE-LESS.

 

[Hopeful]

Open Mouth and insert foot.. Wasn't that long ago I posted this exact thing and i got horse whipped for it, now it looks like the blind can now see. The sad thing is, now, when companies file - there aren't the investors willing to throw money at companies needing the financing. I dare say, if AMR goes into bk, it will not be a pretty one. The unions should have smelled the coffee last time and told them to file. Instead they caved and the company got the concessions they wanted and they got to keep the most important negotiating tool of all - pensions.. So basically you will cave again to more concessions. It seems like the cycle in this industry is HOPE-LESS.

Fine by me, pro management type that you are..

Let it get ugly and let the stock become worthless. It's the only thing executives understand.

DO yo have any idea what more concessions means? It means AA's service will be sewer quality and on time performance lower than whale dong.

It's the least employees can do to show the company how much we care.

 

[poplockanddropit]

Fine by me, pro management type that you are..

Let it get ugly and let the stock become worthless. It's the only thing executives understand.

DO yo have any idea what more concessions means? It means AA's service will be sewer quality and on time performance lower than whale dong.

It's the least employees can do to show the company how much we care.

LOL, what?? Sewer quality?? LOL, your not Singapore Airlines Hopeful. You fly around a fleet of MD80s without any video, old and haggard flight attendants, and the same soda and snacks for sell as all the others.. Get over yourself. In your defense however, I must say, some of the best union contracts have come from the most hard economical times FWIW.

 

[Mrs. McFly]

First of all, why trust what Moody's says after they gave Bear and Lehmans great marks and now the two are gone. Also, Moody's role in rating mortgage derivatives is very suspect. Why believe them now?

Second, this talk of working to keep the stock in the toilet with bad service is despicable. This is no way to vent your frustrations over negotiations and will cause trouble for ALL of us in the long run.

 

[FWAAA]

In addition to AMR, the list includes UAL, jetBlue and USAir.

Absent from the list are DL and CO.

 

[poplockanddropit]

In addition to AMR, the list includes UAL, jetBlue and USAir.

Absent from the list are DL and CO.

Yup, thats right.. I don't know about JBLU, but i know UAL doesn't have alot of cash left. However, it looks like USAir and AMR are more likely to default than the rest.. I see US defaulting first and then AMR. Like I said before, if US - UAL - or CAL go chapter 11 - again - they will quickly be merged with another star carrier. AMR however, not so likely, unless it goes chapter 11 before USAir, then Doug Parker will be going straight for the jugular vein. Could pan out many different ways. If your pilots act up too much though, you can kiss it goodbye.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yup, thats right.. I don't know about JBLU, but i know UAL doesn't have alot of cash left. However, it looks like USAir and AMR are more likely to default than the rest.. I see US defaulting first and then AMR. Like I said before, if US - UAL - or CAL go chapter 11 - again - they will quickly be merged with another star carrier. AMR however, not so likely, unless it goes chapter 11 before USAir, then Doug Parker will be going straight for the jugular vein. Could pan out many different ways. If your pilots act up too much though, you can kiss it goodbye.

And every one of them (except maybe Jblu) has higher CASMs than AA.

CAL has been through BK twice and their mechs earn about $10k/yr more than their counterparts at AA. How bad could it be?

 

[Maark767]

Yup, thats right.. I don't know about JBLU, but i know UAL doesn't have alot of cash left. However, it looks like USAir and AMR are more likely to default than the rest.. I see US defaulting first and then AMR. Like I said before, if US - UAL - or CAL go chapter 11 - again - they will quickly be merged with another star carrier. AMR however, not so likely, unless it goes chapter 11 before USAir, then Doug Parker will be going straight for the jugular vein. Could pan out many different ways. If your pilots act up too much though, you can kiss it goodbye.

Get real for once..... Nobody is merging with anyone if UAL or US file BK.... This time it's OVER....Doors closed....
And American is NOT going to file BK.... They many AAsets to sell before they are broke....
Also the S-80's are paid for and now that fuel is down, they make AA money.