AMT PAY RATES

[local 12 proud]

I stand by my blue juice comments, as verified by Don himself (as to the procedure not being a big deal in and of itself). The fact that it keeps on being brought up is laughable in and of itself.

I really don't care wheter you, Don, GWB, The Pope, or the Messiah himself think it was "no big beal". Fact is legal documents were FALSIFIED in order to sign off an unserviceable aircraft component as serviceable.

 

[Bizman]

Whats your point jizzman? care to join the debate, or did you just come here in the defense of SCABS like the other beancounter? :blink:

The point was peon, you seem to think that because your company calls it AMT or OSM, that it is the only way to a tech can be termed. Different companys use different terms to mean the same thing. Bottom line is your a grease monkey

 

[limit]

I guess that was kind of my point. The AMFA guys must have been making 25% more than AA guys after 2003, since a 25% reduction in NWA rates puts them right in line with AA mechanics (within a dollar or two per hour?). You guys are always saying that the replacements "devalued" the craft, when in reality, it was just fixing an obvious discrepency between existing pay rates and the rates the competitors were paying. Please correct me if I'm mis-interpreting this.

I believe that right now the difference between the two is about $5/hour (or about 18% less for NW).

 

[local 12 proud]

The point was peon, you seem to think that because your company calls it AMT or OSM, that it is the only way to a tech can be termed. Different companys use different terms to mean the same thing. Bottom line is your a grease monkey

OK wise guy post where I said that the terminology concerning an 'AMT' or 'OSM' is finite. I said that the term AMT covers the entire spectrum of Aviation Mechanics, and that you must have an A&P In order to put an aircraft in service.

Yea jizzman I am a GREASE MONKEY who by the way makes sure your arse is safe at 35,000 ft. I surmise that your a bootlicking company arse kisser who gets his promotions based upon his puckering abilities!

...BTW your little lady, if you have one would soak her panties with delight if she had the priviledge of keeping company with this GREASE MONKEY...🙂

 

[groundcontrol]

The point was peon, you seem to think that because your company calls it AMT or OSM, that it is the only way to a tech can be termed. Different companys use different terms to mean the same thing. Bottom line is your a grease monkey

Well there ya go...
Thanks for the confirmation...
IDIOT :cop:

 

[High Iron]

The point was peon, you seem to think that because your company calls it AMT or OSM, that it is the only way to a tech can be termed. Different companys use different terms to mean the same thing. Bottom line is your a grease monkey

Ah... Classic flame-baiter/troll.

 

[Bizman]

Ah... Classic flame-baiter/troll.

Hooked you and a few others

 

[PlayTheOdds]

I stand by my blue juice comments, as verified by Don himself (as to the procedure not being a big deal in and of itself). The fact that it keeps on being brought up is laughable in and of itself. I never made comment on the pry bar. It seems equally unimportant.

...And this displays your total and complete ignorance concerning aircraft maintenance.

Finman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical propFinman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical proportions. Who would have ever known? On the other hand the use if a torque wrench used as a prybar. This particular torque wrench is exclusively used to torque the axle nut on the tires for every type aircraft in NWA's fleet. The torque of the axle nut is what properly seats the wheel bearings. An under or over torqued axle nut will lead to a bearing failure which could very well turn into a departing tire.

Finman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical proportions. Who would have ever known? On the other hand the use if a torque wrench used as a prybar. This particular torque wrench is exclusively used to torque the axle nut on the tires for every type aircraft in NWA's fleet. The torque of the axle nut is what properly seats the wheel bearings. An under or over torqued axle nut will lead to a bearing failure which could very well turn into a departing tire.

I myself watched in disbelief, as this act was happening, that a mechanic who actually holds an A&P Certificate would even consider doing such a thing, then to actually do it? It is indeed a serious maintenance offense.

 

[High Iron]

Hooked you and a few others

No, Not really. I didn't debate you, I just pointed out what you've readily admitted to, thereby rendering all your arguments heretofore null and void...as they were intended solely to inflame.

 

[Don Smith]

You see Don, quality and safety are not in the forefront with the money managers, its all about the bottom line and getting the maximum return for the shareholders, while crossing your fingers and hoping a tragedy does'nt occur. seems substandard skills and shortcuts by outsourcing and using SCABS is as 'finny ole boy' would say..."A vital key to the successful turnaround of NWA"

On the mark as usual Local 12 with this comment. And as usual the response from the Finman are to defend the shortcuts as adding to the nwa bottom line. He takes me out of context with my comments on the "blue juice affair" of PTO. Finman refers to it as "a procedure" now, but he has already justified it by agreeing with the SCAB that if it gets the plane out on time then its OK.
Like we've said on this board before, in so many words, safety is of secondary concern at nwa. SCABs promote its demise on message boards and the beancounters hail its demise as "aiding" the industry. Something wrong here.

Well there ya go...
Thanks for the confirmation...
IDIOT :cop:

Your hilarious GC...akin to "give him his idiot sign"

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

The term (AMT) can also apply to an A&P, I also know mechanics that hold A&P Ratings and are not paid a license premium, where I work they are titled OSM's.

Once again SCAB, you don't know what the f..k your talking about!

Local, could you elaborate on this "OSM"? I seem to recall hearing that term somewhere, but am unsure to its meaning, or where I heard it.
Thanks.

Don, I do not know for sure if the premium pay for inspectors has been eliminated. None of the scabs on board here have disputed the numbers yet, so I would assume that they are indeed topped out at $27.08/hr.

During my picket duty, I see a few of the scab inspectors that I used to know as they leave work, but the topic of pay never enters into the conversation...

BeenThere, glad to have been of some help. I should have stated that the $27.08/hr was for a topped out scab with 5+ yrs. of seniority with NWA. The base pay for a new hire was also reduced by 25.7% from $21.43 to $15.92 per hour. I do remember that the company was offering the scabs $32.00/hr and a $2000 bonus at the beginning of the strike - I highly doubt that any of them are making anywhere near that much now, unless they work OT.

The $30 an hour was for the duration of the contract only. Once the contract expired we were given the bonus. I dont recal the per diem split off the top of my head, but it wasnt bad. Naturally, that all went away upon going direct.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

You should have seen MSP in it's hay-days. You could take a job in a shop fixing widgets for your whole career, do a good job, make the top pay and retire well. The entire time without an A&P. Only if you aspired to the line would you need your tickets. I would laugh at the guys that intentionally went to CAN LAND...It was a real dead-end job that you couldn't bid out of there but you got weekends off. What a waste of an A&P...but those are the guys that probably crossed the picket lines. Maybe they all have their brass hammers

I gotta agree with ya here. I used to walk the hangers on "B" and "C" in awe at the capabilities of the place. I can see how a tech could pidgeon-hole himmself somewhere for years. Don, if that was your work station, I gotta admit to being VERY impressed with all I had seen and heard regarding the work that used to be done there. After seing the now empty shops, and watching all that equipment being boxed up, I did gain a much better understanding of the level of emotionalism I witnessed from the strikers. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to see the bench/table/shop where you spent 20-30 YEARS being sold off like some foreclosure auction.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Well I would assert that some posters to these boards would disagree. I'll not 'beat a dead horse' as finny ole boy puts it concerning the buckets of blue juice shenanigan, seems that's a sore spot with him. I guess a SCAB substituting a calibrated torque wrench as a pry bar could be considered; to borrow a few phrases from our favorite beancounter, "irrelevant, immaterial things", "having a little creativity", and my favorite one "something outside the standard practice in order to get a plane out on time".

You see Don, quality and safety are not in the forefront with the money managers, its all about the bottom line and getting the maximum return for the shareholders, while crossing your fingers and hoping a tragedy does'nt occur. seems substandard skills and shortcuts by outsourcing and using SCABS is as 'finny ole boy' would say..."A vital key to the successful turnaround of NWA"

local, with your permission, I would like to put my "inspecter" hat on regarding this blue juice issue. I dont know all the particulars here, but I would be willing to say that particular action COULD be done legally, IF THE PROPER VERBAGE IS USED IN BOTH RIGHT UP, AND SIGN OFF. Again I re-itterate not knowing the particulars, so I would have to see the exact verbage, and would ask if it was in accordance to applicable AMM's. Now, we BOTH know that the AMM doesnt cover EVERY situation, in which case the good judgement of the tech, and the PROPER SIGN off becomes the governing factor.
My first civilian inspection role was with an feeder flying Saabs. Our FAA rep was a man named Tom D. He gave me some VERY good advise regarding this sort of issue. He said, " If an airline followed EVERY amm procedure, EVERY gemm procedure, EVERY FAR, THEY WOULDNT FLY HOUR ONE!" Then he said, "...A GOOD inspecter knows what he's HAS to see, and and what he doesnt. A good A and P knows what rules to bend, and what rules to follow true." This was straight from the FAA. I bet if you really tried, you could PROBABLY recall taking some type of action not exactly by the book that SAFELY got a bird out on time.
PTO, if you can recall the specifics of this particular issue, I would be happy to either put my stamp on it, or reject it depending on the specifics. The rest of you should know by now that I dont cut any slack to anyone. If PTO is wrong, I'll be the first to make it official. If he can properly articulate why he took that particular action to justify that sign off, I will give him all due credit.
Sound fair to all?

Finman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical propFinman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical proportions. Who would have ever known? On the other hand the use if a torque wrench used as a prybar. This particular torque wrench is exclusively used to torque the axle nut on the tires for every type aircraft in NWA's fleet. The torque of the axle nut is what properly seats the wheel bearings. An under or over torqued axle nut will lead to a bearing failure which could very well turn into a departing tire.

Finman I must agree that the blue juice issue has been elevated to hysterical proportions. Who would have ever known? On the other hand the use if a torque wrench used as a prybar. This particular torque wrench is exclusively used to torque the axle nut on the tires for every type aircraft in NWA's fleet. The torque of the axle nut is what properly seats the wheel bearings. An under or over torqued axle nut will lead to a bearing failure which could very well turn into a departing tire.

I myself watched in disbelief, as this act was happening, that a mechanic who actually holds an A&P Certificate would even consider doing such a thing, then to actually do it? It is indeed a serious maintenance offense.

Dude, what the hell is wrong with your cut and paste?

 

[Don Smith]

I gotta agree with ya here. I used to walk the hangers on "B" and "C" in awe at the capabilities of the place. I can see how a tech could pidgeon-hole himmself somewhere for years. Don, if that was your work station, I gotta admit to being VERY impressed with all I had seen and heard regarding the work that used to be done there. After seing the now empty shops, and watching all that equipment being boxed up, I did gain a much better understanding of the level of emotionalism I witnessed from the strikers. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to see the bench/table/shop where you spent 20-30 YEARS being sold off like some foreclosure auction.

I only worked in line stations for my 17 years. I went to quite a few weeks of training in MSP and had a few friends in the shops. I just couldn't bring myself to do one job for my whole career. And who in his right mind would want to live in Minnesota anyway
I'm happy you gained a "beter understanding" of our emotionalism but until it translates into your walking out the door at nwa it doesn't mean a thing.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

I only worked in line stations for my 17 years. I went to quite a few weeks of training in MSP and had a few friends in the shops. I just couldn't bring myself to do one job for my whole career. And who in his right mind would want to live in Minnesota anyway
I'm happy you gained a "beter understanding" of our emotionalism but until it translates into your walking out the door at nwa it doesn't mean a thing.

Fait enough, and well said...but in all honesty, I dont feel my departure from NWA would help anyone anymore.