APFA demands a re-vote

[Bob Owens]

Mikey;
The mechanics are seeking to overturn the vote too.
Three thousand did not get ballotts.
The numbers were consecutive.
Votes were easy to change and there was no way to check the status of your vote.
Recently retired AA exec sits on AAA board.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

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On 4/19/2003 8:02:32 AM Bob Owens wrote:


Mikey;
 The mechanics are seeking to overturn the vote too.
Three thousand did not get ballotts.
The numbers were consecutive.
Votes were easy to change and there was no way to check the status of your vote. 
Recently retired AA exec sits on AAA board.


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"Jeez", we might be sitting on "ENRON 2"

BOB, I swear, I''ll never understand, WHAT IS SO HARD to UN derstand that this company is like buying a great ol'' house, that is unliveable.

Now I''m no contracter, but I do know that in a situation like "this", that you strip the "house" right down to the frame , and rebuild it, almost from scratch. (aka), SHRINK THE COMPANY, FACE THE BK JUDGE, (over time), GET OUR $$$, "BENNIES", and PEOPLE BACK TO WORK !!!!!!!!!!!

Sound familiar ?????????/

Crandall was faced with the same situation in the late 70''s/early 80''s, AND WE ALL KNOW HOW STRONG HE "RE-BUILT" THE "HOUSE" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB''s

 

[Bob Owens]

I, m no fan of Crandalls tactics either.

We want an airline person, someone who wants to make money flying airplanes, not building terminals and seeing AA everywhere you turn.

 

[ArtTang]

I concur 100%. That is all we ask for and regardless of the outcome, I will gracefully accept it because it was a CLEAN vote.
Art:



As a REAL union man(stuck in a SHI*TY COMPANY UNION)(TWU), I hope to GOD your right.

All I want to see, is a FAIR, and FLAWLESS election, where every APFA member''s voice is heard !!!!!!!!

In Brotherhood,
NH/BB''s

 

[767jetz]

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On 4/18/2003 11:31:24 PM Boomer wrote:

For the compAAny to previal under Sect. 1113, they have to be able to prove that "good-faith" negotiations occurred.

With the failure to provide all relevant financial data, they cannot meet that standard.


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You are absolutely correct. It would be obvious to any judge that the company did not negotiate in good faith, while labor most certainly did. This would be a big advantage to you in CH11.

As an outsider looking in, and a UA employee and fellow union member, I will say that CH11 is not the end of the world. We were warned by USAir employees about all the doom and gloom. In the end, each company has unique circumstances surrounding it. We faired better than USAir in my opinion. Negotiations continued to take place in CH11 and we came to agreements that are obviously concessionary, but not nearly as bad as it could have been. I believe AA employees would fair even better than we did, considering the recent tactics of Carty.

I think that APFA''s vote was stolen by AA management. If nothing else a re-vote is in order.

 

[wts54]

AAObserver,sounds like there are as many gutless cowards at AA as at my
airline

 

[AAStew]

AAObservor,
I do not agree with 99.9% of what you say, but the .01% I do agree with is that we are voting with our feelings. We are angry, we are betrayed by this Mgmt who claimed to shoulder the burden together. It is a culmination of years of working under this kind of management mentality. If AA were ever to perform a total turnaround and treat us the way SW treats thier employees, they would be surprised how much they would get accomplished. I have worked for years being treated shabbily and with arbitrary rules by management. ANGER builds up. After awhile you just don't give a Sh#t anymore and you are willing to take BK because you know the morally corrupt mgmt you work for. You are right, sometimes it is not very sensible, but human beings can only take so much. This is why unions are formed, we thought they were there for our behalf but unfortunately our unions have gone to bed with company.

 

[Winglet]

The only thing AA Leadership is sorry about . . . . is getting caught. That money has probably already been squirreled away somewhere else.

Trust. There is none when it comes to corporate management, especially airline management. They have "richly" deserved their unsavory reputation.

 

[AAObserver]

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On 4/19/2003 751 AM FA Mikey wrote:

No revote. The vote was decided by the membership on April 15,2003. Let that vote stand. 9842 NO, 9309 yes.

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If you truly want that vote to stand, hence bankruptcy, you either aren''t very bright or don''t care about the scores of jobs that will be lost with a BK court deciding AA''s fate. Newsflash: The BK courts (especially in NY) will agree that the unions are AA''s problem and will not reward you for it.

Some of you think with your "feelings" instead of with brains.

 

[AAObserver]

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We will be in BK either way. There is the only place AA will be compelled to negotiate in a fair manner. There is now easy way there is no better way. SR Execs dont go through so much trouble to protect themselves in the event of a BK filing unless they believe one to be imminent.

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Yes, it''s possible that you will be in BK regardless. Still, it''s best for the unions to have newly renegotiated contracts before then.

I can guarantee you if AA goes BK, you will not feel that the negotiations are done in a fair manner because the unions will get squeezed so tight it will make your head spin through layoffs and even steeper employee concessions.

The union leaders and followers don''t seem to have the business knowledge to realize this. All they know how to do is whine and cry about what management is doing wrong.

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/19/2003 10:34:45 AM AAObserver wrote:

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On 4/19/2003 751 AM FA Mikey wrote:

No revote. The vote was decided by the membership on April 15,2003. Let that vote stand. 9842 NO, 9309 yes.

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If you truly want that vote to stand, hence bankruptcy, you either aren''t very bright or don''t care about the scores of jobs that will be lost with a BK court deciding AA''s fate. Newsflash: The BK courts (especially in NY) will agree that the unions are AA''s problem and will not reward you for it.

Some of you think with your "feelings" instead of with brains.

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We will be in BK either way. There is the only place AA will be compelled to negotiate in a fair manner. There is now easy way there is no better way. SR Execs dont go through so much trouble to protect themselves in the event of a BK filing unless they believe one to be imminent.

 

[Buck]

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On 4/19/2003 11:44:18 AM AAObserver wrote:


Yes, it''s possible that you will be in BK regardless. Still, it''s best for the unions to have newly renegotiated contracts before then.

I can guarantee you if AA goes BK, you will not feel that the negotiations are done in a fair manner because the unions will get squeezed so tight it will make your head spin through layoffs and even steeper employee concessions.

The union leaders and followers don''t seem to have the business knowledge to realize this. All they know how to do is whine and cry about what management is doing wrong.

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Correction: it''s best for the unions to have honestly renegotiated contract before then.

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/19/2003 11:44:18 AM AAObserver wrote:

All they know how to do is whine and cry about what management is doing wrong.

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MikeObserver writes, whining, crying seems to be your specialty. All of your posts are of that nature. Directed to the AA employees, but of course not the AA perfect management.