APFA Survey

[MiAAmi]

I encourage everyone to do the APFA survey on-line. One of the questions asks whether we should keep the unlimited PVD system or go back to limited PVD's
In my opinion it would benefit more people if we went back to limited PVD's so that more people are eligible to get PVD's not just the super senior f/as. I bet if you ask around PVD's are hard to come by unless you have lots of seniority. Spreading out the availablity of PVD's to everyone is more fair than the system we have now. Regardless of your opinion please take the time to fill out the survey.

 

[jimntx]

I bet if you ask around PVD's are hard to come by unless you have lots of seniority.

Based on what I hear at SLT, PVDs are impossible to come by regardless of seniority. I was flying with some rather senior f/as in December on a high-time turn--it was their line. High-time turns are super easy to get rid of from Open Time because the AVBL people snap them up immediately.

At SLT with reserves finishing DEC with less than 50 hours, no one that I know of got a PVD during DEC. Maybe if they tied PVDs to the average utilization formula for reserves--i.e., if avg. utilization is below the norm, PVDs MUST be granted.

 

[Skymess]

EVERYONE really needs to take this survey:
http://www.apfa.org/content/view/1431/538/
It's on the front page so you can't miss it.


Surprisingly, there are some VERY good questions on that survey. Everyone should definitely take it. It's a really good way to see how diverse our work group really is. We have to put a lot of the choices in order of importance to us from lowest to highest and you could definitely see how the order will be different for everyone.
ex. rank importance of holiday pay, night pay, furlough pay, longevity pay, purser pay, galley pay, holding pay, ground time pay, understaffing pay.........

Some of the good questions were:

would you like your shorter layover after your longer duty day or before? (would you like them to kill you before or after you sleep?)


Other things;
-shorten the duty day, or leavie it as is.
-Lowering the duty aloft domestic from 8:59 or keeping it
-Lengthening the shortest allowable layover time
-Keeping compensation as is or adding variable forms to determine pay steps such as passenger letters determining raises.

All things involved us putting the numbers in from lowest number (highest importance) to highest number (lowest importance)

My advice to people is to read through each section of the survey and take a moment before numbering that section to:
1. first determine what is acceptable
2. number ONLY the acceptable items and type NO next to what you consider unacceptable. There were some things, such as passenger letters for raises, that I found unacceptable. I don't want some hoodoo guru style raises with people getting raises because they wrote their own letters or letters 'magically' getting lost in the mail.

I also got to the section about what I think acceptable layover times, short layover times, and acceptable duty days, and chose one up from what I would normally have chosen to try to counteract the psycho FAs who want 8,000 hour days and minimum layovers. I figured maybe the negotiators would attempt to go for the average that way and the average would then be higher.

 

[jimntx]

Why do they go out of their way to make things as difficult as possible? On the survey they had a list of 22 items that you are expected to rank order from 1 to 22! I reduced the print size to almost unreadable (which at my age I guess isn't all THAT small), and couldn't fit the whole list on a single screen.

I also felt that, per usual, there was very little attention paid to junior f/a issues. If it weren't for the fact that people with over 20 years are still on reserve at least 1 month/year at certain bases, there probably wouldn't have been a single question about reserve issues.

 

[upsilon]

2. number ONLY the acceptable items and type NO next to what you consider unacceptable.

Cxxs, my comment is only on the procedure and a heads-up. In all the 'numerical rank' polls I know about, only numeric characters are permitted. Alpha either makes the response unacceptable or the alpha characters are not transmitted.

 

[Skymess]

Cxxs, my comment is only on the procedure and a heads-up. In all the 'numerical rank' polls I know about, only numeric characters are permitted. Alpha either makes the response unacceptable or the alpha characters are not transmitted.

Upsilon, on those surveys where it didn't take the numbers would it let you type them and then accept them? I had no problem typing the letters and it took them and told me my survey was complete. Of course, I could have sent it and it turns up blank later on. I guess we'll see. There was also a 'type in any other suggestions' spot at the end.

Most people think that AA and APFA surveys are a waste of time anyway because they get out of them what they want to get out of them. I really kind of felt this survey, as opposed to all the others that AFPA has conducted, was different because it actually had options on it that looked good to me. Previous surveys contained only options that were completely unacceptable to me with no room for any write ins or suggestions.

 

[Nor'Easta]

I'm sure the most important thing everyone has marked as #1 is...

PAY INCREASE

 

[s80dude]

PAY INCREASE[/size]

True, but there are some folks out there saying they will take whatever work rules the company wants for a huge pay increase.... I find that kind of thinking very dangerous. IMO, work rules are just as important as pay.

 

[nbmcg01]

True, but there are some folks out there saying they will take whatever work rules the company wants for a huge pay increase.... I find that kind of thinking very dangerous. IMO, work rules are just as important as pay.

more important

 

[nbmcg01]

True, but there are some folks out there saying they will take whatever work rules the company wants for a huge pay increase.... I find that kind of thinking very dangerous. IMO, work rules are just as important as pay.

more important

 

[FA Mikey]

Some work rules yes, some not as much. keep in mind its all relative to the individual. I never cared for the double your flying time off, with more than five and a half hours flying. Kept too many trips low on time and I was always wanting to get my hours in and have a chance to fly some extra and still yet have time off at home for friends and family.

Many people agreed with me, many people did not. In the end work rules, pay and everything else will be decided a majority of those who take the time to vote. As we see time and again, its not that many.

 

[FWAAA]

Work rules are certainly important (as Mikey points out, more important for some than others) yet you can't pay your rent or feed your kids with work rules. Most important? Maybe not for everybody.

 

[nbmcg01]

Work rules are certainly important (as Mikey points out, more important for some than others) yet you can't pay your rent or feed your kids with work rules. Most important? Maybe not for everybody.

Work rules can make up for pay... some of the areas that need to be addressed are the "sits"..wasted time for /fas. Long turns can be great BUT only if you negotiate no more than 2 legs in a day. Our most senior trip was an LAX-IAD turn. 2 legs, 7 days on the property. Full month flying time. Plenty of "space" to pick up additional trips. Another was stl-sju. Trading, lift the restrictions. Get rid of the "equal or" rules. If it is negotiated that the most efficient flights HAVE to be presented, then it will happen. The Company doesn't want to "run" the bids more than once to insure the most productive flying. Too bad. Negotiate several "runs". Most people want to go to work, get off the plane and go home or to their layover. Unless you do the job, many don't understand the "rush" and "letdown" effect of multiple legs, especially with extended ground time. When we were paid 100% pay and credit for deadheading, there was very little. If there are penalites for the long sitting times, they will disappear. Same with under staffing. We received one hour of flt time for every hour , prorated for partial hours, for understaffing. Very rare. Especially with larger aircraft and the longer flights. I would love to work the few stl-anc that were understaffed..lol big bucks! Our work rules vs yours are the reason I made a little more at TWA and flew less days. Tracked it for a year.
Reserve, add in a 12 day spread, one at the beginning of the month, one in the middle, one at the end. Negotiate that a certain % have to be the 12 days. That gives the ability to back them up, which COULD avoid having to use sick time for a prescheduled surgery or mtg, or whatever. December reserve went very senior at TWA because of the end of the month 12 day spread.

Just some "thoughts".

Intn' f/as would "freak", but why are they paid more? In the "old days" it was because over water was considered more dangerous. I think that has been proven to be archaic. For the most part, no more than 2 legs. How about a blended pay? Consider doing away with overtime (add it into the blended formula) and your trading rules become very simple. Company wouldn't have a leg to stand on restricting trades because they don't want to pay overtime for a flight that they could have paid a straight rate. Open your minds to new ideas and think of what would bring you quality of life.

 

[Skymess]

Intn' f/as would "freak", but why are they paid more? In the "old days" it was because over water was considered more dangerous. I think that has been proven to be archaic. For the most part, no more than 2 legs. How about a blended pay? Consider doing away with overtime (add it into the blended formula) and your trading rules become very simple. Company wouldn't have a leg to stand on restricting trades because they don't want to pay overtime for a flight that they could have paid a straight rate. Open your minds to new ideas and think of what would bring you quality of life.

I like the separate pay scales, separate reserves, and separate divisions myself.

 

[nbmcg01]

I like the separate pay scales, separate reserves, and separate divisions myself.

don't need to combine reserves or divisions... open mind Chris..lol