Oneflyer said:
I that's the case, most of manAAgement should be working for free or better yet, paying to work at AA. How many billions of dollars has this management team cost us over the years, not much value in that.
Are We Next?
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I that's the case, most of manAAgement should be working for free or better yet, paying to work at AA. How many billions of dollars has this management team cost us over the years, not much value in that.
Hackman said:
Why should we do this? To protect your jobs? To help the competition? I will leave when I am ready, not before that. When I decide (or am forced) I will deal with that alone too. I realize it is scary for everyone in the industry but you must understand that no one is going to close down just to make it easier for the competition to thrive.
Hackman
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http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3123757
"Some carriers have found a better way. Southwest, with more unionized employees and fewer costs, still makes the most money".
"Some carriers have found a better way. Southwest, with more unionized employees and fewer costs, still makes the most money".
Hackman
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I guess I feel differently than you about giving concession, after concession. Tilton gets an huge bonus for screwing you, and you keep taking it with a smile. If that's ok with you, thats fine with me. Everyone has they're opinions. I didn't say this because I want your airline to fail so I benefit from your career loss. Not the case at all.Fly said:
I know management is coming to the concessions and furlough stand again. I highly doubt if UAL or US Air go down its going to change this.
Oneflyer said:
According to your logic,I guess we now all add less value to AA than we did before 2003 because we are being compensated less for doing the same position.I guess we all became less productive in 2003 so AA had no choice but to pay us less for doing the same position.
I guess the thinking has changed since the EAL people walked in 1989. When preparing to strike EAL (Lorenzo), severence, unemployement checks, etc. were never even talked about (unlike USAir) and the fact that our competitors (DL, US, AA, PA, TW, etc.) and their employees would greatly benefit from our demise was irrelevent and not even discussed.Fly said:
Hackman
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EAL employees showed (except the scabs) the the way it should go, screw us one to many times Mr. Lorenso, and your airline is history. About that time I was looking for a job, and EAL called. I really did not know what was going on in Miami, until later. They offered a free room, meals, and an airline ticket to go to Houston for B727 and L1011 Gen Fam courses. Nothing better to do, and being fresh out of the military and school, I went down. Stayed two weeks on Lorenso's dime, ate and drank for free, had a great time. During the stay, a few of us were at the hotel playing cards, and partying. We had the tv on, and the news of Eastern Airlines came on about the strike. The news spread like wild fire, and we all agreed EAL was not the place to go.aafsc said:
Came time for us to get on the airport bus at the hotel, this EAL manager comes on and gives us this; "We expect you men to be in Miami in one week to start your careers with Eastern Airlines". Man, did that idiot get an ear full!!!!! We (about 30 of us) were laughing so hard and slamming him I thought he was starting to cry. Nobody I know went, not one.
Sadly today, about half of that bus would probably have scabbed. We have more than one EAL scab at AA, and twu bubbas welcome them with open arms.
I'd rather starve, live under a bridge, and sleep in a cardboard box than be a scab.
cybercat
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I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about this, but if everyone is paying that same for fuel, AA is making more money than SWA today. I know all the crap about selling the fuel hedges so save it. That said, unions at SWA are far more willing to work with the company and are far more willing to be reasonable when it comes to work rules and pay.
eolesen
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cybercat said:
Depends. Some of us were definitely talking about it in the airport bars (i.e. the Korner House and the Owl), and if you were one of the airlines being able to pick at the carcasses of Pan Am and Eastern (i.e. South America routes, LHR, Frankfurt hub, the Shuttle), you definitely saw an upside. Now, the upside isn't as clear cut for people to identify with.
And don't think that the unionists from the other airlines were all singing kumbayyah around the picket lines with the EAL folks... Many people forget that ALPA was one vote away from cutting off the EAL pilots from the monthly strike pay that the union was providing.
The biggest difference is that there's no one CEO to blame for how things are right now, and in the late 80's, everyone was too busy attacking Lorenzo and Icahn, without realizing that every other airline CEO was watching to see what they could do along the same lines. Neither Lorenzo or Icahn were necessarily evil -- they were just extremely shrewd businessmen willing to do whatever it took to keep every last dollar in their pocket.
As a side note and getting back onto the topic, had airline pensions been converted to 401K's back then, we'd probably all be a little better off because of how the stock market performed in the late 90's.
Well, lets see, its the general concensous of pretty much everyone in the entire world and studies done by AA, SWA, and third-parties.
Hackman
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It took two years and Herb to step in out of retirement for the twu to finally negotiate the SWA FA's contract. The contract is not good, I have read it, and I have a copy. I have a friend that's a SWA FA and she has stated several times the contract stinks when you dig into it. That's the twu, no surprise.Oneflyer said:
The mechanics at SWA booted the ibt for a various reasons. AMFA will also fight SWA management when and if the time comes.
I don't know what you mean by "work with the company". I take this as; "Grab your ankles when your told, no lube for you union bastards". The twu works with company very well. They do what ever they are told as long as the payoff is in it for the unelected and privileged few in the twu.
Oneflyer, you have not been at AA very long, I think you stated two or three years? In that case, you DO NOT know what we have been through for the past 22 years with the worthless twu union pets and the manAAgement that keeps them .
I'll be blunt, you stick to counting AA beans and finding ways to make money in your cube at Center Port. Keep your hatred of unions and unionized working people reserved for the boss when you bring his coffee to him in the morning. Your statement about SWA and its unions indicates you have no idea what your talking about.
Hey Hackman, I'll be blunt too. Go #### yourself. I'll stop by the unemployment line someday to check on you and the rest of your union dumbasses.
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