No there weren't any draft cards burned during the Big One...WWll.
The draft system wasn't invented yet bucko...and people fought for their country.
How about you choose to die here or over there?
Go to jail? Look into Private Eddie Slovik.
No there weren't any draft cards burned during the Big One...WWll.
The draft system wasn't invented yet bucko...and people fought for their country.
How about you choose to die here or over there?
Go to jail? Look into Private Eddie Slovik.
C
Cosworth
Guest
That's my point. A draft was not needed. The war needed to be fought and everyone here knew it. WWII was a 'just' war and there was no shortage of people.
I do not adhere to the die here or there theory. Viet Nam nor Iraq were a threat to the US then or now.
Desertion has nothing to do with dodging the draft so I fail to see the connection of Pvt. Slovik.
Running scared out of the country is desertion......ask a vet. :down:
As to a 'just' war...ask Eddie.
Who decides when a war is 'just'...you got a tribunal or something that lets pansies off?
The Selective Service Act of 1917 (40 Stat. 76) was passed by the Congress of the United States on May 18, 1917 creating the Selective Service System. The Act gave the President the power to draft men for military service. The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 was passed by the Congress of the United States on September 16, 1940, becoming the first peacetime conscription in United States history. The original Act was allowed to expire in 1947 because it was thought that a sufficient number of volunteers would enlist for the nation's defense. The number of volunteers was not enough, however, and a new draft act was passed in 1948. Between 1948 and 1967 several draft laws were enacted.
Wiki....
As to a 'just' war...ask Eddie.
Who decides when a war is 'just'...you got a tribunal or something that lets pansies off?
The Selective Service Act of 1917 (40 Stat. 76) was passed by the Congress of the United States on May 18, 1917 creating the Selective Service System. The Act gave the President the power to draft men for military service. The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 was passed by the Congress of the United States on September 16, 1940, becoming the first peacetime conscription in United States history. The original Act was allowed to expire in 1947 because it was thought that a sufficient number of volunteers would enlist for the nation's defense. The number of volunteers was not enough, however, and a new draft act was passed in 1948. Between 1948 and 1967 several draft laws were enacted.
Wiki....
C
Cosworth
Guest
Given the fact that Vets do not make nor determine the law what they think dodging the draft constitutes does not matter. Desertion is a military offense and therefore does not apply to civilians as far as I am aware. Where did I mention that anyone 'gets off'? If there are consequences, they they will have to pay them. Whether it is jail time or loss of citizenship.
As for just vs unjust wars, it is simply popular opinion. Viet Nam was not a popular war. It split this nation. The same goes for Iraq. WWII was a 'just' war simply for the fact that it had to be fought and we were attacked on our home soil while an active war was taking place over seas. And no, I do not believe the 9/11 attacks can be equated to Pearl.
Your Wiki citation seems to indicate that during WWII there were enough volunteers to fill the ranks, only after the war was the act renewed.
Finally, given the way this country and our elected officials treat our vets, I could not blame anyone for not wanting to join up and making every effort not to join. Were I to willing place my life at risk, I would expect far better treatment than what is being provided. When our government 'plans' a war but sends the troops in under equipped 'because "You go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." That is inexcusable in my opinion. Especially when the war is lie to begin with.
That's why they made it a requirement when picked...not an option.
You do realize that if you are a CO...you still have to serve don't you?
C
Cosworth
Guest
All this pissing and moaning......you're too friggin' old anyway unless they're coming down your street...then you're drafted.
C
Cosworth
Guest
I am speaking theoretically. Even when I was eligible, I had no intention of fighting a political war on behalf of our government.
When a foreign power sets foot on our soil in an act of war, I will be there along with the rest of the nation. If the POTUS wants to nation build, he/she can go do it them selves. That is not something I am interested in signing on for. If the POTUS wants to invade foreign powers in order to obtain resources then he/she can do that on their own because that is not something I am interested in signing on for.
When a foreign power sets foot on our soil in an act of war, I will be there along with the rest of the nation. If the POTUS wants to nation build, he/she can go do it them selves. That is not something I am interested in signing on for. If the POTUS wants to invade foreign powers in order to obtain resources then he/she can do that on their own because that is not something I am interested in signing on for.
Tug McGroin
Senior
For all the whining about VP deferments, it doesn’t seem to be a major issue. The Republican’s nominated and elected Cheney with his 5 deferments and the Democrats nominated and elected Biden with his.
So, by your own acknowledgement you would have never volunteered or enlisted to fight in any world war the United States participated in. Germany, Italy and Japan never set foot on US soil “in an act of war†(Hawaii became the 50th state in 1959). Apparently these wars were “unjust†too.
C
Cosworth
Guest
No, military service has never been an issue so long as the other guy has/has not been in the service. When Reagan ran, service was not an issue for republicans. When Kerry ran, republicans tried to demean his service even though Bush was AWOL and Cheney had 5 deferments. When Bush I ran against Clinton, Clinton had no military history but Bush I was a Vet. Blah Blah blah....
Check your history books. Japanese soldiers did set foot on US soil and US Soldiers fought against them. I consider a US territory US soil and no Hawaii is NOT the ONLY place Japanese soldiers landed. You sound like a smart boy so I'll let you use the search engine of your choice to figure out where. I consider Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands as much USA as New Mexico or Florida. I suspect most others in the US feel the same way.
Secondly, I never said that setting foot on US soil was the only criteria, although it is certainly one of them. Besides which, I am pretty sure that you know I also meant that if a nation flies over to a US military base and bombs the crap out of it is covered under the "sets foot on US soil" conditions.
Tug McGroin
Senior
Without doing an extensive Google search on exactly when the Japanese had stepped on US soil as an “act of war†I vaguely recall reading about the attack on Attu in the Aleutian Island chain in June of 42. But then again, as with Hawaii, Alaska didn’t become a state until 1959. Also, at the time of the Attu attacks the US had already declared war against Japan 6 months earlier, so that wouldn’t count now would it?
Cosworth, I took your words “When a foreign power sets foot on our soil in an act of war, I will be there along with the rest of the nation†in their most literal sense.
Though I don’t know you all that well, I feel positive you would volunteer to defeat the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan, or for that matter, anywhere on earth, if your age permitted. Times have changed and it is not only the threat of “foreign powers†attacking US soil but terrorist organizations and their “thug-hugging†enablers that have allowed safe haven to train fighters to take their holy war to US soil.
Like stalking butlers these rogue terrorist hide, watch and wait for the prefect opportunity to attack the US. What better situation in the US than NOW to attack being our economy and moral are in such dire straits.
C
Cosworth
Guest
You are correct about the Aleutians but as I said, I view a US protectorate or territory as US soil. Whether they fly over and drop bombs or put boots on the ground I view it as the same.
You are incorrect with your assumption with me volunteering (age permitted) to fight the Taliban or Al-Queda. We are partially responsible for creating them. We are a big part of their revenue source. Our dependence on oil and our unwillingness to break our dependence on it funds the nations who fund the terrorists. We could end the terrorism in a heart beat if we as a nation were willing to make the hard decisions. Start by giving up the gas guzzlers. Start by investing in public transportation. Call on our elected officials to invest heavily in solar, wind and hydro electric. Start by making recycling required by law. Sort your trash or get a fine. Increase CAFE requirements to 30MPG minimum for ALL vehicles (commercial exempt with verification so soccer moms/dads don't have a way out to buy a SUV for the heck of it). Start retro fitting homes with Solar/wind power as primary or secondary power supplies. And the list goes on. How big of a dent do you think that would make on fossil fuel consumption? Why was this not started 30 years ago? We helped create this monster.
The monster is way out of control. I do not believe that fighting them will work, other wise you might be right in that I might have considered taking up arms against them. I equate fighting them with killing fleas with a fly swatter. Futile. The only way to stop them in my view is to shut down the revenue source. The only way to shut down the revenue is to stop burning oil. The only way to do that is to break our dependence. Kill one terrorist and 5 more will take their place.
I guess the alternative is to nuke a city or country out of existence but I am not interested in being an accomplice to mass murder and stooping down to their level. I am not interested in punishing the ignorance just for being ignorant. This is not WWII where the enemy is wearing a uniform. This is Viet Nam where a child could be wearing a bomb or a child could be a child in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In my opinion, if we want to win the war on terrorism, combat will not work. Israel has proven that although it appears they are slow in learning that lesson. Israel has been 'fighting the war on terrorism' for over 60 years and they are still fighting. They are no closer to winning that war than we are to winning the drug war. Why can people not look at history and learn from it? Castro has been in power for 50 years now? Yet we still blockade trade with Cuba like it will magically work? They are bad commies but we do billions in trade with China the good commies? We have been fighting the war on drugs for decades and all we have managed to do is make the manufactures filthy rich.
To paraphrase a phrase, "IT'S THE MONEY STUPID". (not calling you stupid Tug). It['s all about the money. That is what motivates and enables damn near every thing in this world. You need money to be a terrorist, you need want money to do what you want to do, you want money as a motivator. If there is no money to fund a terrorist, they will wither on the vine. If the ME need every dime they have to by food and get water and power then they will not have the excess to give to OBL so he can buy more toys to kill people.
I will not fight so the likes of oil sheiks, CEO's oil company stock holders and the like can line their pockets with blood money. I will not sacrifice my life for your right to drive a SUV with one person in it. My life is worth far more than that.
You are incorrect with your assumption with me volunteering (age permitted) to fight the Taliban or Al-Queda. We are partially responsible for creating them. We are a big part of their revenue source. Our dependence on oil and our unwillingness to break our dependence on it funds the nations who fund the terrorists. We could end the terrorism in a heart beat if we as a nation were willing to make the hard decisions. Start by giving up the gas guzzlers. Start by investing in public transportation. Call on our elected officials to invest heavily in solar, wind and hydro electric. Start by making recycling required by law. Sort your trash or get a fine. Increase CAFE requirements to 30MPG minimum for ALL vehicles (commercial exempt with verification so soccer moms/dads don't have a way out to buy a SUV for the heck of it). Start retro fitting homes with Solar/wind power as primary or secondary power supplies. And the list goes on. How big of a dent do you think that would make on fossil fuel consumption? Why was this not started 30 years ago? We helped create this monster.
The monster is way out of control. I do not believe that fighting them will work, other wise you might be right in that I might have considered taking up arms against them. I equate fighting them with killing fleas with a fly swatter. Futile. The only way to stop them in my view is to shut down the revenue source. The only way to shut down the revenue is to stop burning oil. The only way to do that is to break our dependence. Kill one terrorist and 5 more will take their place.
I guess the alternative is to nuke a city or country out of existence but I am not interested in being an accomplice to mass murder and stooping down to their level. I am not interested in punishing the ignorance just for being ignorant. This is not WWII where the enemy is wearing a uniform. This is Viet Nam where a child could be wearing a bomb or a child could be a child in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In my opinion, if we want to win the war on terrorism, combat will not work. Israel has proven that although it appears they are slow in learning that lesson. Israel has been 'fighting the war on terrorism' for over 60 years and they are still fighting. They are no closer to winning that war than we are to winning the drug war. Why can people not look at history and learn from it? Castro has been in power for 50 years now? Yet we still blockade trade with Cuba like it will magically work? They are bad commies but we do billions in trade with China the good commies? We have been fighting the war on drugs for decades and all we have managed to do is make the manufactures filthy rich.
To paraphrase a phrase, "IT'S THE MONEY STUPID". (not calling you stupid Tug). It['s all about the money. That is what motivates and enables damn near every thing in this world. You need money to be a terrorist, you need want money to do what you want to do, you want money as a motivator. If there is no money to fund a terrorist, they will wither on the vine. If the ME need every dime they have to by food and get water and power then they will not have the excess to give to OBL so he can buy more toys to kill people.
I will not fight so the likes of oil sheiks, CEO's oil company stock holders and the like can line their pockets with blood money. I will not sacrifice my life for your right to drive a SUV with one person in it. My life is worth far more than that.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Well, I have restrained myself enough avoiding this discussion because most use hypotheticals and not ‘life’. So I’ll give you all my 2 cents from what I believe and have experienced.
First of all and foremost, War is Hell… Been there, done that, no T shirt… 😛
Vietnam was not an unjust war as some of you chicken hawks would like to portray.
If one would look at what was trying to be accomplished, then there would be no doubt that the Vietnam War was Just and Honorable.
Our ‘failure’ was to NOT have the tenacity to finish this war.
Our cowardice has been a disaster that infects us even to this day.
Should we be ‘proud’ that we did not have the tenacity to finish the job?
“Peace With Honor’’ GMAFB! Thanks to that multi faced publican Kissinger
After the treaty was broken by the invasion of the North Vietnamese what did our publicans do?
Where was the outrage that they broke the treaty, drove south killing everyone in their path?
Where was the outrage as our former allies (that were not executed) were sent to repatriation camps for years!
No Where! :angry:
Now, what has Southeast Asia become since then?
How did our ‘cowardly’ exodus from the region benefit humanity?
When we ‘ran’, China and Cambodia continued to subjugate them (as is today, but few would know as no one gives a crap).
The Cambodian Killing Fields? Where millions were executed? What ‘honorable’ thing did we do?
Nothing! :down:
Some ‘whisper’ amongst themselves of what is good, clean, and honest; as long as it is not them that have to sacrifice.
The Merican Peple did not give a #### then and neither did the government as they placated their ‘honor’ into appeasement.
Kind of like today.
Laugh at me for being a Patriot, sacrificing myself to keep you ‘all’ warm and comfy, but that; in and of itself; is the ‘right’ that “WE†have given you.
B) xUT
First of all and foremost, War is Hell… Been there, done that, no T shirt… 😛
Vietnam was not an unjust war as some of you chicken hawks would like to portray.
If one would look at what was trying to be accomplished, then there would be no doubt that the Vietnam War was Just and Honorable.
Our ‘failure’ was to NOT have the tenacity to finish this war.
Our cowardice has been a disaster that infects us even to this day.
Should we be ‘proud’ that we did not have the tenacity to finish the job?
“Peace With Honor’’ GMAFB! Thanks to that multi faced publican Kissinger
After the treaty was broken by the invasion of the North Vietnamese what did our publicans do?
Where was the outrage that they broke the treaty, drove south killing everyone in their path?
Where was the outrage as our former allies (that were not executed) were sent to repatriation camps for years!
No Where! :angry:
Now, what has Southeast Asia become since then?
How did our ‘cowardly’ exodus from the region benefit humanity?
When we ‘ran’, China and Cambodia continued to subjugate them (as is today, but few would know as no one gives a crap).
The Cambodian Killing Fields? Where millions were executed? What ‘honorable’ thing did we do?
Nothing! :down:
Some ‘whisper’ amongst themselves of what is good, clean, and honest; as long as it is not them that have to sacrifice.
The Merican Peple did not give a #### then and neither did the government as they placated their ‘honor’ into appeasement.
Kind of like today.
Laugh at me for being a Patriot, sacrificing myself to keep you ‘all’ warm and comfy, but that; in and of itself; is the ‘right’ that “WE†have given you.
B) xUT
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
When all terrorists are dead...
