Army Sucides highest in 20 years

[KCFlyer]

Kept it in his pants............

How many soldiers and foreign civilians in a country that did nothing to us died because he didn't? Redbird calls Clinton a "do nothing" when it came to bin laden - but I am sure that you are one who would have claimed that any action he took was to divert the publics attention from his inability to "keep it in his pants"....

 

[EastUS]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would have PROUDLY headed for Canada, and NOT have given it a Second Though !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has always mystified me about the "left" = How's it even possible for any "man" to have the term "PROUDLY" associated with desertion, and personally shirking combat? Has it truly been that some have actually elevated cowardice and personal convenience to the status of some supposed "virtues"? :angry: No one needs be thrilled over any conditions..but raising that right hand and swearing that Oath should mean something to all who do it.

Btw: That's an entirely seperate thought from rabidly, or blindly supporting the supposedly "conservative", but actually full of BS "right" side.

Politics aside..To those who've perished, I offer my prayers. For those who'd "PROUDLY" desert...I offer my utmost contempt.

 

[KCFlyer]

Politics aside..To those who've perished, I offer my prayers. For those who'd "PROUDLY" desert...I offer my utmost contempt.

You kind of have to think back to the times. There's a bunch of us who are opposed to the war in Iraq. The soldiers that are over there "volunteered" for the Armed Forces and took that oath. That doesn't excuse the fact that they are involved in a war that should never have been waged, but the did volunteer.

Back in the 1960's, a bunch of us were opposed to a war we felt should never have been waged. The difference there is that a great many young men were DRAFTED to go into that war. Some of them went to Canada instead. That's why I insist to this day that had the draft been in place in 2003...and if we were indeed fighting a "war on terror", not a war on the Taliban, then the draft should have been reinstated on 9/12/2001, the constituents of the Congressmen who voted to allow Bush to declare war after all efforts at diplomacy had been tried on Iraq would have insisted that Bush exercised at least SOME diplomacy aside from drawing a line in the sand - then sending in the troops. It's easy to be a patriot when your son or daughters life is not on the line.

 

[Redbird]

It seems I recall that had Clinton even tried to do anything about bin laden, the right would have claimed that it was just to divert attention from the Lewinsky affair. Come on...admit that you would have.

So you are saying Clinton's actions were poll driven and the country's best interest were secondary to what the right would have said? You seem to repeat a theme that Clinton repeatedly exhibited poor judgment whether it was with interns or with terrorism. Again, you don't help Clinton's image with such arguments.

The truth is Clinton did little if anything except lob a few cruise missiles at suspected targets. And for someone with a constant eye on the polls, it is perfectly understandable. The economy was good (not necessarily due to Bill's efforts but due to a Congress that tried to reign in spending) and things were rolling along. Even though intel said there was a storm brewing, it seems little if anything of real action was done. Not a good legacy.

 

[Redbird]

Out of curiosity, what do you think Clinton should/could have done?

Clarke, Clinton's terror czar (?), has said that they had OBL once and Clinton dithered and then decided not to go for the strike. One of the major themes today is how inept this current admin is in that they can't find and take out OBL. Yet, the former admin had him in their hands and let him go.

Granted, taking out OBL probably would not have stopped the jihadists but it surely would have put them on notice that Clinton was taking their threats seriously. One can conjure up all sorts of possible scenarios as to what happened later may have been averted but that is mere conjecture and not supportable by fact.

IF one reads any aviation human factors books and peruses the sections on rogues, one has to be struck by how it seems to be describing Clinton in detail. Charismatic, poised, exceptionally adept in social settings, adept with language, etc.. AND one not given to staying within the boundaries. Rules are for others. This is applicable whether we are talking aviators or Presidents.

Clinton was a reaction to the Bush 1 years. IF one looks at recent history, one can easily understand how various people wound up on 1600 Penn Ave. After Truman, things were good and the country went to sleep. Eisenhower. The country woke from its nap and wanted to do exciting things. Kennedy. Johnson quit rather than face the continued puzzle of Vietnam. We get Ford. People are fed up with Washington and they elect Jimmy who walks down Penn Ave for the inaugural to show he is one of the people. Jimmy screws up almost everything including the economy and his inaction tells the Iranians their chance is NOW. The country quickly tires of the double digit interest rates and votes in Ronnie. Bush beats one of the most laughable candidates ever, Mike Dukakis. Bush doesn't know the price of milk, Perot helps split the vote and Bill gets elected. The left puts up another laugher, Gore and he loses to Bush 2. The left then takes a candidate who combines the failed policies of McGovern with the vibrant personality of Dukakis and HE LOSES. All this to say, Obama has a very good chance for no other reason but he has stumbled onto an easy mantra of "Change" which is somewhat poorly defined but many will vote for the idea.

A bit long in explaining but you get my drift. Clinton dithered and no one cared. The rumble of future conflict was drowned out by the good times. At least that is the way I see it... I could be wrong.

 

[Redbird]

It's easy to be a patriot when your son or daughters life is not on the line.

This is a scurrilous argument that strips any commander of his humanity and says that one can be careless with others lives as long as a family member is not involved. Do you actually believe Bush or his commanders think they have a free hand because his daughters and their children are not in Iraq?

 

[KCFlyer]

This is a scurrilous argument that strips any commander of his humanity and says that one can be careless with others lives as long as a family member is not involved. Do you actually believe Bush or his commanders think they have a free hand because his daughters and their children are not in Iraq?

I'm saying that when anyone tells the right that it is WRONG for our soldiers to be in Iraq - they are told "well, they volunteered". I'm saying that if there was a draft, the "patriots" who were all behind Bush going into Iraq might not have been so quick to agree....they might want him to think just a little more instead of taking a "Ready.....FIRE...Aim" approach to a war.

A gal at work...quite a good right leaning republican woman...was very much behind Bush's push into Iraq. When I said that I felt we didn't have enough manpower to do the job properly and that the draft might need to be reinstated, she immediately mentioned her 17 and 19 year old sons....and said that she hoped there wouldn't be a draft. As I said...it's easy to be a patriot when you son or daughters life is not on the line.

 

[delldude]

Who said it was policy? These are rogue acts by renegade American servicemen that EastUS would like to pretend were justified or did not take place.

Shall we start with Haditha?

And:

How about Hamandiyah? There were a few others that you can search on your own.

These incidents do not advance our goals in Iraq.

Seems others see it different:

A court martial on Wednesday acquitted a US Marine for his role in the deaths of 24 civilians in Haditha in Iraq in 2005, the sixth man to be exonerated in the affair, a military official said.

Lieutenant Andrew Grayson, 27, was declared "not guilty on all charges" by a jury, said a spokesman for the Camp Pendleton military base in southern California where the hearing started on May 28.

Eight military personnel were originally charged over the incident -- four soldiers faced murder charges and four officers, including Grayson, were accused of covering up and failing to properly investigate the killings.

However, since charges were first announced in December 2006, prosecutors have struggled to make the allegations stick.

But he said: "Based on the information I had at the time, based on the situation, I made the best decision I could have."

Split second to decide........not quite like in front of the TV.

Story

 

[Veritas]

Seems others see it different:

He was acquitted of charges that he tried to help cover up the killings of the 24 Iraqis. He was never accused of being directly involved in the unprovoked killing of civilians, including women, children and the elderly.

From your link:

...prosecutors say there were no insurgents, alleging that the soldiers opened fire unprovoked in revenge for their colleague's death.

In a three-hour shooting spree, they say, the soldiers shot five passengers of an approaching taxi and killed 10 women and children at point blank range, among others.

...most of the dead were killed as Marines swept through three houses near the bombing, prompting a wide-ranging internal investigation.

 

[delldude]

He was acquitted of charges that he tried to help cover up the killings of the 24 Iraqis. He was never accused of being directly involved in the unprovoked killing of civilians, including women, children and the elderly.

From your link:

You're missing other things......

the sixth man to be exonerated in the affair

But he said: "Based on the information I had at the time, based on the situation, I made the best decision I could have."

 

[Veritas]

Nice try at cherry picking out of context. But then, we have all learned to expect that from you.

Here is the context for your blurbs:

Six have now had charges against them dropped, while charges of murder against squad leader Frank Wuterich were changed to the lesser offense of manslaughter.

Wuterich faces trial later this year, along with Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, the highest ranking officer accused over the incident who has been charged with dereliction of duty and violation of a lawful order.

Wuterich told a preliminary hearing at Camp Pendleton last September that he would "always mourn the unfortunate deaths of the innocent Iraqis who were killed during our response to that attack."

But he said: "Based on the information I had at the time, based on the situation, I made the best decision I could have."

Nothing you have posted changes the fact that 24 Iraqi civilians, including women, children and the elderly, who posed no risk of harm to the US Marines, were killed for no good reason.

 

[delldude]

Nice try at cherry picking out of context. But then, we have all learned to expect that from you.

Here is the context for your blurbs:


Nothing you have posted changes the fact that 24 Iraqi civilians, including women, children and the elderly, who posed no risk of harm to the US Marines, were killed for no good reason.

who posed no risk of harm to the US Marines

And you were there when split second decisions as to the squads survival was on the line?

Then prove it in a court of law........military law.

 

[Veritas]

And you were there when split second decisions as to the squads survival was on the line?

From my earlier links:

Military officials say Marine Corp photos taken immediately after the incident show many of the victims were shot at close range, in the head and chest, execution-style. One photo shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer, shot dead, said the officials, who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity because the investigation hasn't been completed.

One military official says it appears the civilians were deliberately killed by the Marines, who were outraged at the death of their fellow Marine.

And:

The Marines are accused of dragging the innocent man from his home, shooting him to death, then planting an AK-47 rifle and a shovel next to his body, apparently to make it appear the man had been burying an IED, one of the roadside bombs that have been so deadly to U.S. forces in Iraq.

 

[delldude]

From my earlier links:

And:

And like was indicated previously from links I supplied......so far...Murtha is a liar and there is little,if any evidence to support the charges.

You talk as if you were there in that crucial split second when the squad decided to live another day.And you seem to wish it had gone the other way for the Marines.May God and the US Marines have mercy on your soul.

Semper Fi,Mac.................

The Marines are accused

the sixth man to be exonerated in the affair

acquitted of charges

prosecutors have struggled to make the allegations stick.

 

[Veritas]

And like was indicated previously from links I supplied......so far...

Nothing in your earlier links contradicts what I posted.