By the end of the week, one, (the F/A's), or all pensions will be gone. Give or take a day. That is why the ATSB did not give UA the loan guarantee. Wall Street does not like or want pensions. The ATSB rather stick the tax payer with the bill over the pensions default then co-sign a loan. It is a long term investment for Big Businesses. First the Steel, then the Airlines. Those 3 boys and their friends on Wall Street, making big money, can't stomach the idea of someone working 20 or 30 years for a company and getting 20k a year, (or 150k), for the next 20 years. Or longer. Medical science is getting ready to keep one living, like, forever. And they just dont like that. 30k people on a company dole, (their view), it is no good for a company market value. That's it.
Arrivederci Pensione
- Thread starter Albatroz
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JungleClone
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The end of the week, give or take a day? Are you merely speculating? It'll take a lot longer than that to terminate the pensions. The company should be smart enough to bring the unions to the bargaining table before they go forward with terminating pensions. I'm not saying it won't happen. In fact, I'm of the opinion that the defined pensions as we currently know them will be history very soon. But I seriously doubt it's as soon as a week away. More like months.
United's sleeping giant
By Mike Comerford Daily Herald Business Writer
Posted 7/11/2004
Retired United Airlines Capt. Tom Conely fears he could lose half his annual pension.
"That's a big hit if the government takes over the plan," said Conely, of Huntley, a 34-year veteran of United.
While a government takeover of the Elk Grove Township-based airline's pension plans isn't anticipated anytime soon, the fate of its underfunded plans is a major issue as the airline tries to raise money to get out of bankruptcy.
When pension plans fail, the government picks up the slack, but it has a limit on how much it will pay - this year's maximum is $43,386 per person.
In a government takeover, those with higher pensions, such as pilots, would lose the most, as would younger employees who have built up the least credit toward a pension.
It is the uncertainty of what United will do in the coming days about its billions in pension bills that is creating the suspense.
William G. Huley spent 26 years at United as a non-unionized management employee. He said he has talked to other retirees about the fate of their retirement incomes and retiree health benefits.
"We don't know what's going on," said Huley, who now heads the Northwest Tax Watch, a tax advocacy group. "The company says nothing, and until we do hear, we have concerns about possibly losing pensions and medical plan coverage."
What United does with its pensions will have far reaching implications for employees, retirees, bankruptcy creditors, financiers and, even, airlines of similar size that would consider cuts in their pensions to keep pace with any change at United.
One unknown is the likelihood of gaining union, creditor, bankruptcy judge and federal approval for any move to pare costs by cutting voters' retirement incomes during an election year.
Still, pensions have been the sleeping giant of United's 19 months in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. United acknowledges its pension plans are under-funded by about $6.2 billion, the most in the airline industry.
It owes $4.1 billion to its employees plans in the next four years and has warned about its ability to cover its contributions in the short term.
While the pension burdens continue to mount, United said it needs $2 billion to exit bankruptcy, a task made more difficult by a federal assistance panel's third denial of loan guarantees last month.
A new group of financial backers will ask for as much as $1.2 billion in additional cost cuts, according to one industry estimate. Jettisoning the pension plans is one possible source of the needed savings.
Meanwhile, United's unions say they've already given wage and benefit concessions amounting to $2.5 billion a year. United's retirees already agreed to medical cost caps earlier this year.
Both the Association of Flight Attendants and the Air Line Pilots Association have said they would vehemently oppose further changes in their pension plans.
In an Internet message to members, the flight attendants union said pension cuts would have an "inevitable backlash" from the flight attendants and "would leave nothing but scorched earth in its path of destruction."
Pilots weren't much more encouraging.
"Pilot pay is not the problem at United," said Herb Hunter, ALPA spokesman. "The airline is doing well. If it weren't for fuel prices, it would be profitable, even with bankruptcy costs."
Still, Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association director O.V. Delle-Femine is quoted in The New York Times as being resigned to some changes in pensions to save the airline.
"You've got to gut the pension plans," he said. "I don't see any other way."
In the meantime, the airline continues to lose money. It lost $2.8 billion last year on revenue of $13.7 billion. Industry projections have it losing more than $1 billion this year too.
All the while, outside financial pressures continue to build. Last week, the price of oil rose above $40 a barrel; it hovered near $25 a barrel in April, 2003.
And competitors are not sitting still while United restructures. Old-line rivals Delta Air Lines and US Airways are seeking deeper cost cuts to match those at United and have said they may enter bankruptcy to gain concessions from suppliers.
Further, low-fare airlines continue to menace United's ability to gain mid-margin profits. Last week, United rescinded a 5 percent raise on international tickets as low-fare competitor Southwest Airlines announced domestic fare cuts of up to 65 percent.
On the positive side, United points to the fact that it had a slight operating profit in May and its June load factor was a record 86 percent - the third straight month for record load factors at the airline.
And some of United's short-term pension burdens were lessened earlier this year with passage of national legislation allowing a two-year waiver on current minimum payments to the plans.
While the legislation helped several industries, United was the biggest single beneficiary, with an estimated $1.8 billion in deferred payments. That doesn't mean United doesn't have to pay the money eventually, according to Robert Mann, airline analyst with R. W. Mann & Co., of Port Washington, N.Y.
Meanwhile, United is working on its financial models for a bankruptcy exit plan that can convince financial backers it can handle the sleeping giant - pensions.
And everyone from creditors to employees is awaiting word on its pension intentions
By Mike Comerford Daily Herald Business Writer
Posted 7/11/2004
Retired United Airlines Capt. Tom Conely fears he could lose half his annual pension.
"That's a big hit if the government takes over the plan," said Conely, of Huntley, a 34-year veteran of United.
While a government takeover of the Elk Grove Township-based airline's pension plans isn't anticipated anytime soon, the fate of its underfunded plans is a major issue as the airline tries to raise money to get out of bankruptcy.
When pension plans fail, the government picks up the slack, but it has a limit on how much it will pay - this year's maximum is $43,386 per person.
In a government takeover, those with higher pensions, such as pilots, would lose the most, as would younger employees who have built up the least credit toward a pension.
It is the uncertainty of what United will do in the coming days about its billions in pension bills that is creating the suspense.
William G. Huley spent 26 years at United as a non-unionized management employee. He said he has talked to other retirees about the fate of their retirement incomes and retiree health benefits.
"We don't know what's going on," said Huley, who now heads the Northwest Tax Watch, a tax advocacy group. "The company says nothing, and until we do hear, we have concerns about possibly losing pensions and medical plan coverage."
What United does with its pensions will have far reaching implications for employees, retirees, bankruptcy creditors, financiers and, even, airlines of similar size that would consider cuts in their pensions to keep pace with any change at United.
One unknown is the likelihood of gaining union, creditor, bankruptcy judge and federal approval for any move to pare costs by cutting voters' retirement incomes during an election year.
Still, pensions have been the sleeping giant of United's 19 months in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. United acknowledges its pension plans are under-funded by about $6.2 billion, the most in the airline industry.
It owes $4.1 billion to its employees plans in the next four years and has warned about its ability to cover its contributions in the short term.
While the pension burdens continue to mount, United said it needs $2 billion to exit bankruptcy, a task made more difficult by a federal assistance panel's third denial of loan guarantees last month.
A new group of financial backers will ask for as much as $1.2 billion in additional cost cuts, according to one industry estimate. Jettisoning the pension plans is one possible source of the needed savings.
Meanwhile, United's unions say they've already given wage and benefit concessions amounting to $2.5 billion a year. United's retirees already agreed to medical cost caps earlier this year.
Both the Association of Flight Attendants and the Air Line Pilots Association have said they would vehemently oppose further changes in their pension plans.
In an Internet message to members, the flight attendants union said pension cuts would have an "inevitable backlash" from the flight attendants and "would leave nothing but scorched earth in its path of destruction."
Pilots weren't much more encouraging.
"Pilot pay is not the problem at United," said Herb Hunter, ALPA spokesman. "The airline is doing well. If it weren't for fuel prices, it would be profitable, even with bankruptcy costs."
Still, Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association director O.V. Delle-Femine is quoted in The New York Times as being resigned to some changes in pensions to save the airline.
"You've got to gut the pension plans," he said. "I don't see any other way."
In the meantime, the airline continues to lose money. It lost $2.8 billion last year on revenue of $13.7 billion. Industry projections have it losing more than $1 billion this year too.
All the while, outside financial pressures continue to build. Last week, the price of oil rose above $40 a barrel; it hovered near $25 a barrel in April, 2003.
And competitors are not sitting still while United restructures. Old-line rivals Delta Air Lines and US Airways are seeking deeper cost cuts to match those at United and have said they may enter bankruptcy to gain concessions from suppliers.
Further, low-fare airlines continue to menace United's ability to gain mid-margin profits. Last week, United rescinded a 5 percent raise on international tickets as low-fare competitor Southwest Airlines announced domestic fare cuts of up to 65 percent.
On the positive side, United points to the fact that it had a slight operating profit in May and its June load factor was a record 86 percent - the third straight month for record load factors at the airline.
And some of United's short-term pension burdens were lessened earlier this year with passage of national legislation allowing a two-year waiver on current minimum payments to the plans.
While the legislation helped several industries, United was the biggest single beneficiary, with an estimated $1.8 billion in deferred payments. That doesn't mean United doesn't have to pay the money eventually, according to Robert Mann, airline analyst with R. W. Mann & Co., of Port Washington, N.Y.
Meanwhile, United is working on its financial models for a bankruptcy exit plan that can convince financial backers it can handle the sleeping giant - pensions.
And everyone from creditors to employees is awaiting word on its pension intentions
The monkey (pensions) has grown up to be a gorrilla. Now the conundrum....gut the pensions, retain jobs to run airline? Save pensions, shed jobs and not run airline? Oh, I got it, gut pensions, shed jobs, destroy airline and take parachute to work as an executive overseeing peanut exports to Bangladesh 
Reuters
Bankrupt United Airlines taking steps to cut costs
Monday July 12, 5:51 pm ET
CHICAGO, July 12 (Reuters) - United Airlines is taking steps to save money by improving its airport operations, aircraft maintenance and cost of sales, the bankrupt airline's chief operating officer said on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
UAL Corp. (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News), parent of the No. 2 U.S. carrier, has been in Chapter 11 since December 2002. It was rejected for a $1.1 billion federal loan guarantee last month and has been working to raise funds to exit bankruptcy. Chief Executive Glenn Tilton has said repeatedly the carrier must slash costs further to ensure its long-term survival.
COO Pete McDonald, in a message to employees that he and Tilton recorded, said a recently completed study of cost management and revenue production revealed United did not operate as efficiently as competitors in those three key areas.
"We're going to have to go even further on costs and take a harder look at how we can improve, how we have to improve, the way we work every day," McDonald said. "This isn't about short-term fixes. It's about an ongoing process."
The airline is working with key suppliers to improve its purchasing of aircraft parts and materials, McDonald said. It is also lowering fuel costs and increasing the efficiency of aircraft by reducing weight, as well as examining how it allocates manpower among ground employees.
He said the carrier has launched several United Express projects that it expects to contribute close to $100 million in savings, in addition to what United has already achieved by renegotiating partner contracts.
United recently finalized a new agreement with a major online travel agency to reduce the cost of selling and distributing tickets, McDonald said. He said the carrier is also implementing technology that ties its system with that of online agency Orbitz (NasdaqNM:ORBZ - News).
Tilton said the company also was taking measures at its Elk Grove Village, Illinois, headquarters to lower costs, streamline processes and eliminate redundancies.
A United spokeswoman said it was premature to speculate on whether Tilton was referring to possible layoffs.
Bankrupt United Airlines taking steps to cut costs
Monday July 12, 5:51 pm ET
CHICAGO, July 12 (Reuters) - United Airlines is taking steps to save money by improving its airport operations, aircraft maintenance and cost of sales, the bankrupt airline's chief operating officer said on Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
UAL Corp. (OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News), parent of the No. 2 U.S. carrier, has been in Chapter 11 since December 2002. It was rejected for a $1.1 billion federal loan guarantee last month and has been working to raise funds to exit bankruptcy. Chief Executive Glenn Tilton has said repeatedly the carrier must slash costs further to ensure its long-term survival.
COO Pete McDonald, in a message to employees that he and Tilton recorded, said a recently completed study of cost management and revenue production revealed United did not operate as efficiently as competitors in those three key areas.
"We're going to have to go even further on costs and take a harder look at how we can improve, how we have to improve, the way we work every day," McDonald said. "This isn't about short-term fixes. It's about an ongoing process."
The airline is working with key suppliers to improve its purchasing of aircraft parts and materials, McDonald said. It is also lowering fuel costs and increasing the efficiency of aircraft by reducing weight, as well as examining how it allocates manpower among ground employees.
He said the carrier has launched several United Express projects that it expects to contribute close to $100 million in savings, in addition to what United has already achieved by renegotiating partner contracts.
United recently finalized a new agreement with a major online travel agency to reduce the cost of selling and distributing tickets, McDonald said. He said the carrier is also implementing technology that ties its system with that of online agency Orbitz (NasdaqNM:ORBZ - News).
Tilton said the company also was taking measures at its Elk Grove Village, Illinois, headquarters to lower costs, streamline processes and eliminate redundancies.
A United spokeswoman said it was premature to speculate on whether Tilton was referring to possible layoffs.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
2 more VP's, 10 Managers and 50 Supervisors..................The Ronin said:Gee, can anybody tell me what this means???
Oh, and we will lay off 200 of the 'little people' who actually do the work.
:blink: UT
