Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Bob Owens]

So using your example of WW2, the mindless ramblings about an elite class of people built those showers and led a world to war where millions died. Stick to the facts that pertain to the issue being discussed. The Art 4 CBA language is sound and will protect our members wages.
 
Your ability to use extreme examples shows how you will resort to anything to draw people away from being pragmatic about the issues facing labor. Using our minds to differentiate between misdirection and the path that will pay competive wages for our skills that we provide is what we need to do.

I was responding to weasels post. Since you are not the moderator I will continue to respond to whatever posts I feel like responding to in the way I choose to.

 

[Overspeed]

I was responding to weasels post. Since you are not the moderator I will continue to respond to whatever posts I feel like responding to in the way I choose to.

 
Pure class Bob

 

[TWU informer]

 
So using your example of WW2, the mindless ramblings about an elite class of people built those showers and led a world to war where millions died. Stick to the facts that pertain to the issue being discussed. The Art 4 CBA language is sound and will protect our members wages.
 
Your ability to use extreme examples shows how you will resort to anything to draw people away from being pragmatic about the issues facing labor. Using our minds to differentiate between misdirection and the path that will pay competive wages for our skills that we provide is what we need to do.

 
Use our minds?
 
Please read a little bit of labor history and discover what it takes to overcomer the issues facing labor. Or, look at France as an example. It isn't our minds that we are being paid for, it is our labor.
 
The leaders of today don't even rely on their own minds, or the thought of withholding our labor as a tool. No, they all want to party, campaign for, and bump elbows with Politicians, which is failing misreably.
 
All of the laws are against us after years of political pandering.
 
How about growing a set and use your labor as a tool to obtain better? AMT's are being used against one another in a race to the bottom and the competetive wage just keeps getting smaller because we are divided into several different Industrial Union's, meanwhile the middle class is shirinking, while numbers of those that are depending on the Government for food, clothing, shelter, and now health insurance keeps growing.
 
What is wrong with trying the old fashion way? And stop being shafted by overpaid union leaders that are closer to the rich and are content to keep playing failed politics, while the members get closer to the soup line.
 
And you, defend that policy, and berate anyone who wants to change it.
 
Just look at us! All we do is throw stones at each other on these bulletin boards. This is not unionism boys, this is living in pure denial and making ourselves feel good by blaming one another. It isn't Bob Owens, or any one person that is the problem. It is the over all direction of labor guided by the current weak and rich union leader.
 
Not once in labor history is there a pussy that made it into the books of fame.

 

[john john]

john john can't get over the CWA T/A with $500 signing bonus and allowed non-covered people to perform their work.
 
Josh

CWA has a TA with management and the passenger service agents?

 

[Overspeed]

 
Use our minds?
 
Please read a little bit of labor history and discover what it takes to overcomer the issues facing labor. Or, look at France as an example. It isn't our minds that we are being paid for, it is our labor.
 
The leaders of today don't even rely on their own minds, or the thought of withholding our labor as a tool. No, they all want to party, campaign for, and bump elbows with Politicians, which is failing misreably.
 
All of the laws are against us after years of political pandering.
 
How about growing a set and use your labor as a tool to obtain better? AMT's are being used against one another in a race to the bottom and the competetive wage just keeps getting smaller because we are divided into several different Industrial Union's, meanwhile the middle class is shirinking, while numbers of those that are depending on the Government for food, clothing, shelter, and now health insurance keeps growing.
 
What is wrong with trying the old fashion way? And stop being shafted by overpaid union leaders that are closer to the rich and are content to keep playing failed politics, while the members get closer to the soup line.
 
And you, defend that policy, and berate anyone who wants to change it.
 
Just look at us! All we do is throw stones at each other on these bulletin boards. This is not unionism boys, this is living in pure denial and making ourselves feel good by blaming one another. It isn't Bob Owens, or any one person that is the problem. It is the over all direction of labor guided by the current weak and rich union leader.
 
Not once in labor history is there a pussy that made it into the books of fame.

 
I see you flexing your labor muscle! Keep it up Dave!

 

[Kev3188]

Well put, Informer!

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Overspun,
 
stop dodging the request
 
prove what you say!       how the TWU has best served the membership over the last 20 years?    You are so sure about what you state but you do not back it up with facts and figures. We have all shown proof how manyconcessions have wrecked our career and have screwed the industry in future negotiations. give me your rational why we should keep the TWU?
Now its your turn.  Back up what you say or it no longer worth listening to your rhetoric.
 
Like I said, you have many resources at your finger tips to draw the information from:
Lttle,gless,videtich,vanderoloo, the AFL/CIO, our TWU economist Donnolly, Our TWU lawyers, our other supposed hired guns.
stop talking start writing

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I see you flexing your labor muscle! Keep it up Dave!

"And you, defend that policy, and berate anyone who wants to change it."

Informer called you out before you even replied, and he is correct about our current labor situation..

 

[TWU informer]

"And you, defend that policy, and berate anyone who wants to change it."

Informer called you out before you even replied, and he is correct about our current labor situation..

Yes they are very predictable and this is why AA loves the TWU.
All management has to do is let them know there will be a reduction in force (RIF) soon. And then a couple of months later sit down with the TWU and "discuss" the RIF and presto, another concession will be given to "save jobs", and then the jobs leave via attrition anyway and headcount still goes down.
 
This scenario happens just as often as the seasons of weather change.
The TWU leadership is too stupid and predicatable.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Overspun,
 
stop dodging the request
 
prove what you say!       how the TWU has best served the membership over the last 20 years?    You are so sure about what you state but you do not back it up with facts and figures. We have all shown proof how manyconcessions have wrecked our career and have screwed the industry in future negotiations. give me your rational why we should keep the TWU?
Now its your turn.  Back up what you say or it no longer worth listening to your rhetoric.
 
Like I said, you have many resources at your finger tips to draw the information from:
Lttle,gless,videtich,vanderoloo, the AFL/CIO, our TWU economist Donnolly, Our TWU lawyers, our other supposed hired guns.
stop talking start writing

and lets not forget the TWU/company promoted groups of PLI and JLT which lost jobs by helping the company and the members recieved nothing in return
under the TWU, Tulsa has been screwed with abolishing labor loan restrictions, more weekend coverage, loss of 2000 members for the base. 
Oh and John Hewitt is another resource you can use as well, since he knew so much at contract time!
 
I am tired of of Overspun and his political redirecting.  Either he explains in detail how we are better off with all the concessions we have taken and how this management contract we currently have is better than anyone else or no one should acknowledge his posts.
 
I would vote "NO" again on this industry leading concessionary management contract!  
 
POINT.....US Air management will utilize all the language in this contract and when the hammer falls,  remember your Elected International reps at that time, john hewitt and overspun  told you to vote "yes"

 

[swamt]

Notice the crickets since 5-9 around 3:30pm.  Typical OS, hit and run and hide for about 4 days then return and do the same...

 

[Overspeed]

Overspun,
 
stop dodging the request
 
prove what you say!       how the TWU has best served the membership over the last 20 years?    You are so sure about what you state but you do not back it up with facts and figures. We have all shown proof how manyconcessions have wrecked our career and have screwed the industry in future negotiations. give me your rational why we should keep the TWU?
Now its your turn.  Back up what you say or it no longer worth listening to your rhetoric.
 
Like I said, you have many resources at your finger tips to draw the information from:
Lttle,gless,videtich,vanderoloo, the AFL/CIO, our TWU economist Donnolly, Our TWU lawyers, our other supposed hired guns.
stop talking start writing

 
Your question has been answered already. We are not better off than we were 20 years ago but we are much better off than AMFA represented members over the same period. AMFA fought and lost over 20,000 jobs (or over 80% of their membership) during the last 15 some odd years.
 
AMFA has not done a better job than the TWU when representing members at the same airline. TWU represented FA's at WN make top pay in the industry. So when AMFA is faced with an easy time they do just as good as everyone else. When they are faced with tough negotiating conditions...well...they serious stink. Lost the right represent members at UA due to their miserable record, DL AMTs said no way after seeing what they did with NW AMTs, and the AS OAK overhaul base and capacity is long gone.
 
It's been a rough twenty years for all airline union workers but the worst time has been for those represented by AMFA.

 

[1AA]

^^^ You are so full of yourself. The TWU is the master of concessions since 1983. You are getting desperate because you must feel threatened by little ole AMFA. Keep posting your crap, there must be a humor section on this forum somewhere.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

 
Your question has been answered already. We are not better off than we were 20 years ago but we are much better off than AMFA represented members over the same period. AMFA fought and lost over 20,000 jobs (or over 80% of their membership) during the last 15 some odd years.
 
AMFA has not done a better job than the TWU when representing members at the same airline. TWU represented FA's at WN make top pay in the industry. So when AMFA is faced with an easy time they do just as good as everyone else. When they are faced with tough negotiating conditions...well...they serious stink. Lost the right represent members at UA due to their miserable record, DL AMTs said no way after seeing what they did with NW AMTs, and the AS OAK overhaul base and capacity is long gone.
 
It's been a rough twenty years for all airline union workers but the worst time has been for those represented by AMFA.
 

The twu has carved out a path of concessions over the last 20 years that resulted in concessions not only for us at American Airlines but concessions for every other employee at all the legacy carriers. The greatest twu concession was the creation of the eight and a half hour day followed by the B scale from there the list goes on and on paving the way to the worst pay and benefits in the industry. Great Job TeAAm TWU

 

[Overspeed]

The twu has carved out a path of concessions over the last 20 years that resulted in concessions not only for us at American Airlines but concessions for every other employee at all the legacy carriers. The greatest twu concession was the creation of the eight and a half hour day followed by the B scale from there the list goes on and on paving the way to the worst pay and benefits in the industry. Great Job TeAAm TWU

 
Whose CBA and amount of outsourcing was used by the company's lawyers to show that the TWU CBA was better than industry average? It was the CBAs at UA, AS, WN, US, and non-union DL that the company's lawyers presented in court that showed that the TWU CBA provided much greater levels of insourcing at higher overall cost than any of the previously noted airlines. The TWU CBA kept jobs inhouse at $33/hour where other union and non-union simply let that work go to low wage MROs. To me the biggest concession was rolling over on tens of thousands of overhaul AMT jobs by the IBT and AMFA so that a few thousand AMTs could get between $38 and $42. Like I said, AMFA represented over 25,000 members and now has around 3,000. Where are the AMT jobs that they fiercely defended? Yes the TWU had jobs stripped out of their CBA scope in BK but nowhere near as many on straight up numbers, percentage, or ratio basis as AMFA.
 
AMFA is the union of more unemployed airline AMTs than any other union hands down. That is the biggest concession of all.