Ata Cutting Hundreds Of Positions

[Checking it Out]

ATA cutting hundreds of positions
Fuel costs, fare war drive belt-tightening in work force of 8,000


By Chris O'Malley
[email protected]
July 13, 2004

ATA Airlines, grappling with soaring fuel costs and an industry fare war, plans a round of job cuts in the next few weeks, its founder and chairman said today.
"We haven't arrived at the number, but it's a few hundred . . . it's probably in the low hundreds," said J. George Mikelsons.

The cuts will be spread proportionately over ATA's total work force of about 8,000, which includes 2,300 at its headquarters and maintenance center at Indianapolis International Airport. So, in Indianapolis, "it's not a huge impact," Mikelsons said.
ATA has laid off about 10 employees in Indianapolis in recent days, said ATA spokeswoman Angela Thomas.

The nation's 10th-largest passenger carrier is projecting a second-quarter loss, caused by rising jet fuel prices and a decline in military charter revenue, which was $297 million in 2003 versus scheduled service revenue of $1.1 billion.
ATA lost $64.7 million in the first quarter and is looking at a loss for 2004. It posted a $15.8 million profit in 2003 -- its first since 1999.

ATA's operating costs are among the lowest in the industry, at 6.82 cents per available seat mile in 2003.

"We're already pretty lean. But, good gosh, when your fuel goes up as it has . . . and we're already in fare wars. The entire industry is flying below cost," Mikelsons said.
A number of airlines have accelerated fare cuts that aren't usually offered until late summer or fall. Unable to raise fares and stay competitive, "the only thing you can do is cut, cut, cut" costs. "In this environment, I can't even predict when the end is in sight," Mikelsons said of the pricing trend.

The airline recently won concessions from its pilots, who have agreed to give up $43 million over the next two years, in hopes of a better year in 2005. Meanwhile, the Association of Flight Attendants union has urged its members to accept $8.9 million in concessions. Voting ends July 30.

Mikelsons sees two other positive signs. ATA is negotiating with manufacturers of smaller 100- to 110-seat aircraft, which are expected to enter ATA's fleet next year and bring cost efficiencies on some shorter routes while opening up new ones.
Also, ATA next summer wants to become the first discount carrier to launch scheduled service to Europe.
Call Star reporter Chris O'Malley at (317) 444-6081.



ATA NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE
May 25-28, 2004

We now have approximately the following remaining open issues: 7 items in Scope; 7 items in Status; 2 items in Holidays; 12 items in Vacation; Severance Pay; and numerous items in Rates of Pay, Retirement, and Benefits. We do not expect any further movement without direct assistance from the mediator.

Negotiations have been on going for 20 months with no end in sight! Now it looks like a reduction has come! Where is Amfa in this? They are not even mention in this article! Here are members being laid off and negotiations at a stand still and they have yet to come to their aid! But yet they held a rally for NWA who currently has a contract “Iron Cladâ€￾?

It seems the saga of the down word trend continues for the Amfa represented members!

 

[Bob Owens]

The cuts will be spread proportionately over ATA's total work force of about 8,000, which includes 2,300 at its headquarters and maintenance center at Indianapolis International Airport. So, in Indianapolis, "it's not a huge impact," Mikelsons said.
ATA has laid off about 10 employees in Indianapolis in recent days, said ATA spokeswoman Angela Thomas.



We have more mechanics in JFK alone that are still laid off.

 

[Nightwatch]

The cuts will be spread proportionately over ATA's total work force of about 8,000, which includes 2,300 at its headquarters and maintenance center at Indianapolis International Airport. So, in Indianapolis, "it's not a huge impact," Mikelsons said.
ATA has laid off about 10 employees in Indianapolis in recent days, said ATA spokeswoman Angela Thomas.



We have more mechanics in JFK alone that are still laid off.

Errmmm...can't they still blame it on the last union? It's not time for AMFA to start being responsible.

 

[Decision 2004]

Errmmm...can't they still blame it on the last union? It's not time for AMFA to start being responsible.

As soon as you prove that it is the domain of the union to layoff workers, then yes AMFA will be responsible.

On the other hand, when a union lifts the job security covenents as the TWU did "without further ratification", then there is no question the union is responsible for workers that had protection hitting the street via the negotiatied agreement.

Why is George W. Bush to blame for job loss during his Administration if it is Organized Labors domain to remove workers from the payroll via layoff? Shouldn't the massive job loss be blamed on the AFL-CIO instead of the President given your analogy?

 

[Nightwatch]

As soon as you prove that it is the domain of the union to layoff workers, then yes AMFA will be responsible.

On the other hand, when a union lifts the job security covenents as the TWU did "without further ratification, then there is no question the union is responsible for workers that had protection hitting the street via the negotiatied agreement.

I get it now, when there is a furlough at a non-AMFA repped airline it is the unions fault. When AMFA is involved it is the company's fault. Sweet deal, you dummie.

 

[Decision 2004]

I get it now, when there is a furlough at a non-AMFA repped airline it is the unions fault. When AMFA is involved it is the company's fault. Sweet deal, you dummie.

No that's not it.

A UNION does NOT layoff workers. AMFA has never agreed to move a job security protection date to allow workers to be laid-off. The TWU has.

Big difference.

Go rent a back-hoe and dig your head out and you might be able to discern the difference.

Even a simple mind can discern the difference between a union that agrees to concessions regarding job security and one the does not.

 

[Checking it Out]

Amfa won the right to Represent the Mechanic and Related at ATA in early 2002. They currently represent about 800 members 10% of the work force. They have yet to start talks concerning money issues and has a mediator. To date from NWA (1999), Alaska and many other carriers they have NOT negotiated a contract without the help of a mediator. The only successful negotiations was with United retires and we all know that ended up being a concessionary agreement.

Even at NWA the concessions equaled 47% of the membership positions lost to date. I also understand more shops are closing (APU) etc.

At Alaska the defined pension was negotiated away. Delle puts out letters that are complete lies and the AMFA wannabes post it without questioning the validity. They follow blindly!!!

I know we took concessions here, I also know we moved the protection date, etc. But we at the TWU have controlled our own destiny!!! I also know Amfa wannabes can twist this issue anyway they want!!! But the fact still remains, Part of Negotiations is learning how to negotiate successfully! Something Amfa lacks!!! The proof is in the pudding as you say!!!!!!

 

[local 12 proud]

Amfa won the right to Represent the Mechanic and Related at ATA in early 2002. They currently represent about 800 members 10% of the work force. They have yet to start talks concerning money issues and has a mediator. To date from NWA (1999), Alaska and many other carriers they have NOT negotiated a contract without the help of a mediator. The only successful negotiations was with United retires and we all know that ended up being a concessionary agreement.

Even at NWA the concessions equaled 47% of the membership positions lost to date. I also understand more shops are closing (APU) etc.

At Alaska the defined pension was negotiated away. Delle puts out letters that are complete lies and the AMFA wannabes post it without questioning the validity. They follow blindly!!!

I know we took concessions here, I also know we moved the protection date, etc. But we at the TWU have controlled our own destiny!!! I also know Amfa wannabes can twist this issue anyway they want!!! But the fact still remains, Part of Negotiations is learning how to negotiate successfully! Something Amfa lacks!!! The proof is in the pudding as you say!!!!!!

in other words "I GOT MINE BROTHER"

 

[James T. Kirk]

in other words "I GOT MINE BROTHER"

Yes your correct that is the amfa motto.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

We now have approximately the following remaining open issues: 7 items in Scope; 7 items in Status; 2 items in Holidays; 12 items in Vacation; Severance Pay; and numerous items in Rates of Pay, Retirement, and Benefits. We do not expect any further movement without direct assistance from the mediator.

Negotiations have been on going for 20 months with no end in sight! Now it looks like a reduction has come! Where is Amfa in this? They are not even mention in this article! Here are members being laid off and negotiations at a stand still and they have yet to come to their aid! But yet they held a rally for NWA who currently has a contract “Iron Cladâ€￾?

It seems the saga of the down word trend continues for the Amfa represented members!

The AMFA could be just like the twu and give away the farm to save jobs.
But the twu gave away the farm and put 3000 mechanics on lay off.
We have no scope, we lost our holidays, lost a weeks vacation etc etc...
The twu should have stalled the negotiations for 20 months then we would not be the second lowest paid in the industry.
Oh but now I still have a job thank you twu

 

[scorpion]

cio says
I know we took concessions here, I also know we moved the protection date, etc. But we at the TWU have controlled our own destiny!!! I also know Amfa wannabes can twist this issue anyway they want!!! But the fact still remains, Part of Negotiations is learning how to negotiate successfully! Something Amfa lacks!!! The proof is in the pudding as you say!!!!!!

cio
you are one ate up S.O.B.

 

[1AA]

Amfa won the right to Represent the Mechanic and Related at ATA in early 2002. They currently represent about 800 members 10% of the work force. They have yet to start talks concerning money issues and has a mediator. To date from NWA (1999), Alaska and many other carriers they have NOT negotiated a contract without the help of a mediator. The only successful negotiations was with United retires and we all know that ended up being a concessionary agreement.

Even at NWA the concessions equaled 47% of the membership positions lost to date. I also understand more shops are closing (APU) etc.

At Alaska the defined pension was negotiated away. Delle puts out letters that are complete lies and the AMFA wannabes post it without questioning the validity. They follow blindly!!!

I know we took concessions here, I also know we moved the protection date, etc. But we at the TWU have controlled our own destiny!!! I also know Amfa wannabes can twist this issue anyway they want!!! But the fact still remains, Part of Negotiations is learning how to negotiate successfully! Something Amfa lacks!!! The proof is in the pudding as you say!!!!!!

You want to talk about negotiating skills???
How come it took over two years at profitable Southwest Airlines for the TWU to negotiate a contract for the flight attendants? That's nothing to brag about. Oh I forgot the TWU has no experience in negotiating a good contract when the company is making money. But they are quick to give the house away as well as the land it sits on in no time when the profits have turned into losses.

 

[Checking it Out]

1AA, So are you saying we would have been better off in BK?

scorpion, Thanks for the compliments, I know the truth hurts when you you see that you are advocating going to an organization like Amfa who is defenseless to stop the companie from outsourcing!

 

[Radman]

Negotiations have been on going for 20 months with no end in sight! Now it looks like a reduction has come! Where is Amfa in this? They are not even mention in this article! Here are members being laid off and negotiations at a stand still and they have yet to come to their aid! But yet they held a rally for NWA who currently has a contract “Iron Cladâ€￾?

It seems the saga of the down word trend continues for the Amfa represented members!

twu was in negotiation with SW for how long? OVER TWO YEARS and you complain about 20 months. Pull your head out! You need some fresh air!

 

[Bob Owens]

1AA, So are you saying we would have been better off in BK?

scorpion, Thanks for the compliments, I know the truth hurts when you you see that you are advocating going to an organization like Amfa who is defenseless to stop the companie from outsourcing!

Prove that AA would have went BK.

AA said ratify or else and you believed them.

Didnt AA also say they gave the Union "full disclosure" only to find out in the Wall Street Journal that they had hid the executive perks?

Little claimed that the company misled the union in 1995 concerning the "Me Too" clause.

So if the company misled the Union in 1995, which resulted in a hugely concessionary 6 year contract during the industries most profitable years ever, then misled them about full disclosure and the executive bonuses then they surely would not mislead them again about bankruptcy for an even more concessionary 6 year contract, right?

The TWU admitted that the company fooled them after the 95 contract. They asked us for another chance.

In October of 1999, as I drove Little to catch a flight from LGA he said "That will never happen again". (Getting fooled like in 1995 again that is, my driving wasnt that bad).

The TWU admitted that the company fooled them about "full disclosure" in 2003.

The TWU promised us another chance to vote on the contract because of hidden executive perks.

Despite this history they believed the companys threats of BK and denied us the opportunity to revote. Shortly after denying us the promised revote Jim Little admitted that the concessions we gave were "more than adequate". Well why would we give "more than adequate" concessions unless in fact we were misled again?

How many times are we going to trust these morons who keep getting fooled?

You can vote out your Presidents but the fact is that Little controls the information they get and does all the negotiations with the company, and you cant get him out. Little was aware of how the union was fooled in 1995, acted outraged at being fooled again in 2003 but then believed the companys threats on BK.

Why? Is Little really that stupid? Or, is it that Little got a raise and preserved company paid UB the reason why Little was so eager to believe and give "more than adequate" concessions?


Tell us again how the TWU prevents the company from outsourcing? Show us the "Ironclad language".