Attitude = Reality

[ThirdSeatHero]

They would be up in smoke. Simply put. And thousands of other jobs wouldn't have been lost, they would have been disolved.......and you would still be out of a job, along with the 20,000 plus worker that you helped to put on the unemployment list..All because of a temper tantrum.

A "temper tantrum"???

Funny how that's all you can come up with. Perhaps the AMTs at NWA simply were unwilling to work for what NWA was offering.

I know you union bashers hate having the free market thrown back at you, but that's just what it is.

You may be willing to work for the substandard wages/benefits offered by NWA, others weren't. However, because most of those who think like you also have a corresponding myopic view of those who don't, we are treated almost daily to this sort of gibberish.

 

[robbedagain]

A "temper tantrum"???

Funny how that's all you can come up with. Perhaps the AMTs at NWA simply were unwilling to work for what NWA was offering.

I know you union bashers hate having the free market thrown back at you, but that's just what it is.

You may be willing to work for the substandard wages/benefits offered by NWA, others weren't. However, because most of those who think like you also have a corresponding myopic view of those who don't, we are treated almost daily to this sort of gibberish.

how true that is. only scabs would be willing to work under those horrendous third world country wages and put safety at the bottom of their list

 

[PhxMama]

Well Sir then distressed you shall be! If I were an AMT I'd be twisting wrenchs at the local Audi Dealer before I'd participate as a strike breaker.

Way back in 1974 I was within an hour of being hired as a "Gun Thug" to break the Brentwood, KY Coal Strike! (Gun Thug is a term used to describe strikebreakers in the coal fields of appalachia since the 1920's, thus my knowledge of UMW of A) The pay was $512 per week plus accomodations. to a 6'2, 240 pound 20 year old that was nearly triple what I was earning at the time. As I sat there listening to the whole presentation I remembered my late father's words. "Never cross a picket line no matter what, it's WRONG to take another mans job" Soon it became clear what the situation at Brentwood was and I walked out and as I was leaving I was asked why and I replied, "What you're doing is wrong" I later came to find out that I would have been replacing men who didn't earn enough money to rent housing with running water.

When you do what you are doing you take food from babies mouths that frankly isn't yours to take. You devalue yourself and your chosen profession. You become a part of all that is wrong with modern society. You demonstrate you are devoid of morals, values & ethics. Even prositutes demonstrate more character as arguably in doing what they do no one else gets hurt. Can you say the same of your actions?

PineyBob, You are my Hero!

 

[777 fixer]

Very good observation, and polite to boot. To anwser your question, No I don't think they won't cut my pay, fact of the matter is that I'm almost betting on it. But that will not desway me. The fact is that I am an Aviator. I was born one and I will die one. I've always been to poor to afford the amount of money it takes to get my ATP rating, so if I can't fly them, I'm going to fix them and ensure that they fly safely. Lets face it, the world in which a Man (or Woman) can feel secure in their job has long since pasted. There is nothing secure about the 21st century. I am in no way disconnected with reality. Just the opposite actually. I understand full and well the percarious position that the Airline is in. And I can't exactly say that I fully agree with this whole comuter bit. The simple matter is that I love my work. And I will always try to see the silver lining in the darkest of clouds. We do not live in a perfect world nor will I ever claim that we do. But my inital point was that no matter how bleak the situation, things can always be worse. I choose not to focus on the negative, but be mindful of what I have, and be greatful.
Look everyone, I made the list, HEY MOM!

So you are willing to bet that NWA will not cut your pay and benefits? That's a bet I myself would be somewhat hessitant to make. Considering the history of the industry and the fact taht NWA views it's employees as liabilities and not assets. The folks over at US Air, pre merger with AM West, have taken two or three rounds of concessions since 2001. I'm preety sure that there were some positive thinkers over there that thought after the first round there would be no more. Same with the folks over at UAL. They have taken two rounds of concessions. What makes you think that you are somehow imune? It's been forecast that the airline industry will start making money in 2006, except for DAL and NWA. Do you honestly think that the people at HQ will not take additional measures when the vultures start circling?

So you're to poor to get an ATP? Sounds to me you're being a bit "negative". Seems to me you have you're own self fulfilling prophecy going on. You have convinved yourself that there's no way you can get one and therefore you never will. Do you think every ATP pilot out there either had the military pay for thier training or had mommy and daddy pay for it? The answer to that is there are pilots out there who scrapped tpgether the money to get thier ticket.

P.S. Curious as to your thoughts on post #91.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Here's your list,scab or should I say scab list.
List of Pencil Whippers:

1. CSAR GYRENE
2. Play the Odds
3. Opus
4. Jet Tech
5. Any NWA scab

All right! your one third of the way to answering my post! keep of the good work. (Even Saabmiester and local 12 eventually kinda sorta got around to answering my post, so I hold out hope for you as well. Actually, thats not entirely fair to Saab. Despite our disagreements, I think he did an exellent job of answering my questions directly, with no ambiquity or spin.
Now all you have to do is provde specifics to go with your names, as well as answer my hypothetcal question at the end, And you will moved up in the world of internet debate. Chow Kiddo, and best of luck.

MY job is to help deliver a quality aircraft on time, on target....WHATS YOURS?

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Well ladies, gentlemen, and POS SCABS, let me TRY this AGAIN, for the "2nd time" !!!

ADDRESSED to CSAR GYRENE, or ANY other S C A B ;
Question;

"Where would NW be right NOW/TODAY, if "NO" opportunistic, BOTTOM FEEDING, POS SCABS had NOT crossed the picket line" ????????????????
"I'm WAITING" !!!!!
NH/BB's

Sorry for the delay.....had to move back to Detroit, and I wanted to give serious thought to your question, which actually raises a very good point. If absolutely no one responded to NWA's call for replacements, where would we all be? I personally would either be in Iraq working for 160 grand a year, or at FT Rucker working QC.
Your question, however, asks where NWA would be, so I will try and focus on that.
There are currently 2 trains of thought as to the fate of NWA had the contingency plan not been implemented. The first, and most likely, leans towards an even hastier filing of BK, thereby making the current AMFA contract null and void, which would have caused an immediate walk out. The ensuing loss of revenue would PROBABLY have resulted ultimately in liquidation. Then the jb loss would have totalled in the TENS of thousands.
The second theory has AMFA winning a major victory regarding wages and/or layoffs. Emboldened by thier success, it is likely that AMFA would then push back at NWA, requesting even more wages, relaxing of work rules, and recalling of more laid off workers. The ensuing financial hardship would likely to lead NWA to declare bk, thus putting us back to where we started.
The bankruptcy, justified or not, was a 99% sure thing. As you are probably painfully aware, bk judges rarely are labor friendly. The end result most likely would have been the same. AMFA would walk, thousands of jobs would be lost, and a once proud airline would be in a fight for its very solvency.
I freely admit that all this at this point is merely conjecture. The feedback I am getting, from mngmt, scabs, and mechs still on strike is that NO ONE thought it would go this far.
To answer your question as honestly and as forthrightly as I can, I dont know. I'd be willing to bet that niether does anyone else.

Frankly I do not like what unions have become in this country. The IAM is nothing more than a dues collection service that provides little if any value to the average member.

Seniority is a bogus system that stifles the ambitous and often rewards mediocrity.

Unions do not listen to their members anymore than airline executives listen to their customers.

I was in the paperhandlers union for exactly 60 days and I saw drunks who were a safety hazard keep their jobs while placing my life at risk by being drunk. No thanks.

What organized Labor was and should be compared to what is actually is today is a disgrace. Joe Hill, Mother Jones, Aunt Molly Jackson, Sarah Gunning, Jow Kenaghan, John L Lewis, Jock Yablonski & Jimmy Hoffa all must be turning in their graves over what passes for unionism today.

208 Safety Violations in 12 months and the vaunted UMW of A buries 12 of their own. The Coal Operator in some cases didn't even perform the mandatory pre shift air quality inspections mandated in the UMW of A contract. 20 years ago their wouldn't have been miner one in that hole if that happened. Now we haul 12 dead out with another clinging to life. Makes me wanna puke! Still won't cross a picket line which makes me a better man than you.

Yeah,....I can respect that.

No NH/BB not at all. The truth is my truths and your truths are two different things. Our cultures may as well come from two different planets. Even though your union world is withering and dying in front of you, you will never see it. Just as you do not see that my world is on a steady rise. I am a bottom feeder remember? I can only go up. You however have seen the golden days of your world and it is in a steady decline. You are in a sinking ship that you are trying to bail out with a flat bottom shovel. Jump ship while you still can.

Dude,...THATS the truth that CUTS TO THE BONE!
Game, set, match....PTO

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

I am not worthy to be in your presence oh great one. May your intelligence prevail. All hail the dumb Jarhead with only a high school education......WHAT THE HELL DOES HE KNOW!
HHMMMM......Quick buck and jobs leaving our shores? Now let me see. Who is to blaim for this one?.......Oh I know! THE GOVERNMENT! Are they not the ones that decided for you that NAFTA was a good thing. Well then your right at home in a Union. Because from where I am sitting, they both do the same thing to their constituants. Simply put, they promise everything, give you nothing, take your money and leave you to fend for yourself........ As far as a quick buck?........Isn't that what drives our economy?
I repeat myself,.....All hail the dumb Jarhead with only a high school education.......WHAT THE HELL DOES HE KNOW!
Dear Princess, two thoughts for today. First, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, second, you are clearly not paying attention. CSAR doen't work on the line, he is a glorified Secratary simply checking paperwork for parts, not much more I'm afraid. Further more, when he does turn wrenchs, he is amoung the best that I have ever had the pleasure of working with. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES QUESTION HIS INTEGRITY. He is a Marine,....enough said.

"Glorified secretary?!? Listen here ya halo whelp! I was turning wrenches under combat conditions when you were trying to learn the colors of your crayons!
"Checking parts for paperwork????" Can you say "RII sign off DENIED!"? frickin mountain dew drinkin, chain smokin' rock climbing too tall! goof with a tooth attached. Dude, I will squish you like a bug!!!!!
P.S...give Big Red and Lil' Red a hug! See ya in Maranna

 

[Borescope]

I later came to find out that I would have been replacing men who didn't earn enough money to rent housing with running water.

They should have gotten a second job. Many families have either two wage earners or one of them has two jobs. It's called taking care of your family.

When you do what you are doing you take food from babies mouths that frankly isn't yours to take.

Not true. By going to work they have taken a job that someone didn't want, and by doing so were able to put food in their own childrens mouth. If my kids were hungry, I surely would walk off a job without some other way to put food on the table.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Well Sir then distressed you shall be! If I were an AMT I'd be twisting wrenchs at the local Audi Dealer before I'd participate as a strike breaker.

Way back in 1974 I was within an hour of being hired as a "Gun Thug" to break the Brentwood, KY Coal Strike! (Gun Thug is a term used to describe strikebreakers in the coal fields of appalachia since the 1920's, thus my knowledge of UMW of A) The pay was $512 per week plus accomodations. to a 6'2, 240 pound 20 year old that was nearly triple what I was earning at the time. As I sat there listening to the whole presentation I remembered my late father's words. "Never cross a picket line no matter what, it's WRONG to take another mans job" Soon it became clear what the situation at Brentwood was and I walked out and as I was leaving I was asked why and I replied, "What you're doing is wrong" I later came to find out that I would have been replacing men who didn't earn enough money to rent housing with running water.

When you do what you are doing you take food from babies mouths that frankly isn't yours to take. You devalue yourself and your chosen profession. You become a part of all that is wrong with modern society. You demonstrate you are devoid of morals, values & ethics. Even prositutes demonstrate more character as arguably in doing what they do no one else gets hurt. Can you say the same of your actions?

Your father was right...it IS wrong to forcibly remove a man from his place of employment and replace him. There is NOTHING wrong with filling a vacant position, abandoned by the previous worker however.
Can you name me ONE amfa member who was not paid enough to rent a house with runing water?
As to lowering the wages of A and P's, are you aware that the wages of 145 operators such as PEMCO and TEMCO are currently RAISING thier wages. IAM was successful in thier dispute with PEMCO in Dothan, EVEN WHILE YOU CLAIM WAGES WERE GOING DOWN!!!
Exactly which child had food removed from its mouth by WHICH Employee? The starvation of a child is considered child neglect, and is punishable by law. Have you filed a police report yet?
I would opine that it is BIG media, Big hollywood, and Big Socialism that hasdne the most to harm our society.
As to prostitutes, well to be honest, I have often jokingly refered to my fellow contractors as "wrench whores". Feel free to use the term if you wish.

My job is to help deliver a quality aircraft on time, on target....WHATS YOURS?

how true that is. only scabs would be willing to work under those horrendous third world country wages and put safety at the bottom of their list

Do you have specific examples of said "3RD world conditions" I have been to Somalia, kenya, the Philipenes, and a host of other REAL third world countries. I am curious as to which conditions you are refering to.

**Edited to fix double post only**

 

[robbedagain]

well third world countries are paying squat if lucky. that is essentially what NWA wanted AMFA to do but AMFA stood up for what is right against a bunch of rich idiots. scabs such as pto will never understand it because he is a union hater and a mgmt lover while making those wages at NWA

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

well third world countries are paying squat if lucky. that is essentially what NWA wanted AMFA to do but AMFA stood up for what is right against a bunch of rich idiots. scabs such as pto will never understand it because he is a union hater and a mgmt lover while making those wages at NWA

Once you have watched thousands literally starve to death in the street, come talk to me...it tends to change your perspective

 

[Kev3188]

I personally would either be in Iraq working for 160 grand a year...

Let me get this straight; you turned down a job that would pay you potentially 160K to scab at NW?!

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Let me get this straight; you turned down a job that would pay you potentially 160K to scab at NW?!

YUP

 

[TheRealSaabmeister]

Your father was right...it IS wrong to forcibly remove a man from his place of employment and replace him. There is NOTHING wrong with filling a vacant position, abandoned by the previous worker however.
Exactly which child had food removed from its mouth by WHICH Employee? The starvation of a child is considered child neglect, and is punishable by law. Have you filed a police report yet?

Except the mechanics at NWA were, effectively, forced out of their jobs. The positions were not abandoned.

Child endangerment? What in the hell are you talking about?

 

[Bear96]

Bob

As much as we disagree on some things, you're on a roll here and are saying it better than I could. Keep it up!

Unfortunately you probably won't get through to the greedy opportunists.