Attitude = Reality

[777 fixer]

Yes I am a proud SCAB. Sorry to hear about the families, but thats what you get when you let others make decisions for you. And just a point to think about, but a REAL MECHANIC wouldn't put "UNION BROTHERS" ahead of their own childrens needs.

I wonder who really is attending to their "childrens needs".

A "replacement worker" takes a job with NWA. When he did that did he know who long the job was going to last? No, for all he knew the strike might have lasted a month at which point he would have been back out on the street. Is that being responsible to ones family? Leaving a job that might not pay as much but was more stable? Or going to work for a company with as many problems as NWA? Is that being responsible to ones family? Would it have been more "resonsible" to try and find a job at a company that's more stable than NWA?

One could argue that the NWA AMFA mechanics are being more responsible by moving on. I'm sure it's not easy but in the long run it's probably better for their families that they work in a more stable enviornment.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

OK kid, third times the charm! I HAVE ON 3 (THREE) occassions asked you for specific information regarding said pencil whipping, yet you refuse to provide any. Why is that? I am sure there are some guys out there rubber nutting, but I hardly think that has never happened prior to 20 August. Are you prepared to go on the record, officially, and say no hard working and honorable union man has ever performed anything but stellar maintenence, 100 percent by the book?
Now, before you get the silly notion that I condone this behavior, let me re-itterate, again, FOR THE THIRD TIME,
provide me with the names of specific offenders, and I will quite cheerfully drag his or her sorry a$$ out of the facility and stomp there pathetic guts into the ground. As an aside, in a purely hypothetical situation of course, should a union man be found guilty of faulty maintenence, and putting lives at risk by cutting corners, what steps would the union take to ensure that said piece of filth never works on aircraft again? (be careful, this is a trick question)

Here's your list,scab or should I say scab list.
List of Pencil Whippers:

1. CSAR GYRENE
2. Play the Odds
3. Opus
4. Jet Tech
5. Any NWA scab

 

[Kev3188]

Here's your list,scab or should I say scab list.
List of Pencil Whippers:

1. CSAR GYRENE
2. Play the Odds
3. Opus
4. Jet Tech
5. Any NWA scab

Don't forget such fleeting legends as:

Twolf & Mr. T

and who could forget this one:

Keep the Odds (sound familiar PTO?)

 

[Bagbelt]

From an outsiders perspective, it seems like the term "bootlicker" gets used for anyone that hopes to see NWA succeed.

Just thinking of the literal interpretation of the word, it would seem like a replacement worker (I choose not to refer to them as scabs, because from this board they have shown me that they are much more intelligent and honorable than their hateful detractors) would be anything but a "bootlicker". They took the open mechanic positions out of pure self-interest, not to suck up to anybody. Obviously, it was a mutually beneficial arrangement, but that is the expected outcome of a market driven transaction.

I would be interested to hear your answer to CSAR's three examples, and whether or not you consider them "bootlicking". Your refusal to answer a simple hypothetical question makes people wonder what you're hiding.

I think CSAR makes a good point about the die-hard unionism / religion aspect that may be at play. They are obviously not one in the same, but I think there are crossover characteristics that make them very similar in how the members of a said group think and behave. For example, just as you could never convince a faithful christian that evolution exists, even in the face of indisputable evidence, I doubt you could ever convince a pure unionist that it's OK to work harder than the guy next to you in an effort to become more successful.

It just seems that in these discussions, logic gets thrown out the door in an effort to protect this "workers paradise" dream where market economics is circumvented and price points are determined by "need" and "obligation" and "seniority" rather than demand and supply and merit.

Actually, the vatican and most non fundamentalists have no problem with evolution, but this is not the forum. If it were left up to "the market" it would be fine. But the truth is the average guy can't compete with economies of scale no matter how smart or hard working he is. "The market" is controlled by big business. "The market" would have your children back sorting coal bins, with no healthcare, civil rights or workman's comp. "The market" would keep things like love canal quiet. The "good old days" were great, you didn't have to worry about social security, you probably would be dead by 50 anyway.

 

[Hackman]

From an outsiders perspective, it seems like the term "bootlicker" gets used for anyone that hopes to see NWA succeed.

Just thinking of the literal interpretation of the word, it would seem like a replacement worker (I choose not to refer to them as scabs, because from this board they have shown me that they are much more intelligent and honorable than their hateful detractors) would be anything but a "bootlicker". They took the open mechanic positions out of pure self-interest, not to suck up to anybody. Obviously, it was a mutually beneficial arrangement, but that is the expected outcome of a market driven transaction.

I would be interested to hear your answer to CSAR's three examples, and whether or not you consider them "bootlicking". Your refusal to answer a simple hypothetical question makes people wonder what you're hiding.

I think CSAR makes a good point about the die-hard unionism / religion aspect that may be at play. They are obviously not one in the same, but I think there are crossover characteristics that make them very similar in how the members of a said group think and behave. For example, just as you could never convince a faithful christian that evolution exists, even in the face of indisputable evidence, I doubt you could ever convince a pure unionist that it's OK to work harder than the guy next to you in an effort to become more successful.

It just seems that in these discussions, logic gets thrown out the door in an effort to protect this "workers paradise" dream where market economics is circumvented and price points are determined by "need" and "obligation" and "seniority" rather than demand and supply and merit.

1) A bootlicker is an idiot who helps rogue management enrich themselves while the company reams its employees and destroys careers.
2) A bootlicker is a spineless "yes man" who knows what he does is wrong, but for a price, he doesn't care.
3) A bootlicker is a suck-up that if the boss stops suddenly, an anal and cranial collision will result.
4) A bootlicker is a management boy-wonder that will not question the actions of others because he is on the "fast track" to the corner office and will step on anyone to get there.
5) A bootlicker is a snitch who tattle-tails on others because he thinks he can get to be somebody doing it.
6) A bootlicker is a puppet, who because he cannot think for himself, is played by others and regarded as a fool.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Here's your list,scab or should I say scab list.
List of Pencil Whippers:

1. CSAR GYRENE
2. Play the Odds
3. Opus
4. Jet Tech
5. Any NWA scab

Thank you Princess for making this list for us. It is good to see that the number of replacement workers is growing in here. Another half dozen and you guys will be as obsolete as your unions.

I do miss KeepTheOdds myself, considering he knew nothing of unions he had a real knack for putting you guys in your places. He was a great loss for this Forum and I am sure a great asset for NWA. I wonder if he is now a replacement worker or back on the road. He did come here with good intentions you guys just didn't care, you would rather cheer your fellow unionized AMT's to unemployment and belittle anyone who got in the way of that.

 

[finman]

Actually, the vatican and most non fundamentalists have no problem with evolution, but this is not the forum. If it were left up to "the market" it would be fine. But the truth is the average guy can't compete with economies of scale no matter how smart or hard working he is. "The market" is controlled by big business. "The market" would have your children back sorting coal bins, with no healthcare, civil rights or workman's comp. "The market" would keep things like love canal quiet. The "good old days" were great, you didn't have to worry about social security, you probably would be dead by 50 anyway.

Why do you refer to the market as some entity that has an agenda? The market is the combined buying preferences of every individual on the globe.

If I am willing to spend $10 to have someone mow my lawn, and the average that everyone is willing to spend is $10, then that is what the going rate will be in that "market".

Why would the "market" want small children to work in coal bins? Civil Rights would go away?(Not sure how that even applies here) Are people that evil in your estimation? Why do you fear the buying preferences of other people? We happen to be in an industry where the purchasers of our product are not willing to spend as much per unit as they once were, not because they are evil and want slave labor, but because they as individuals have more choices and make their flying decisions based almost solely on price.

Big Business doesn't create the market for anything, but they do play a large part in identifying what the market demands and supplying that demand. The market determines what business do well, which is mainly companies that can provide an inexpensive, quality product.

The good old days are here. The economy is as strong as it's ever been, and there are opportunities galore. They might not be in the field you're currently in, the market just determines what products have value, and if that doesn't jive with your occupation, then you must adapt and create value doing something else.

In general, I just don't understand this doom and gloom utter fear that comes from a lot of poeple on this board. I have to presume it stems from a misunderstanding of macroeconomics, or maybe it's just fear of not having a security blanket protecting you from the movement of the market. So some jobs are going overseas; there are an equivelant number of jobs being insourced in different fields. I don't have any statistics, but I do know that the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been since the late 90's, and consumer confidence is trending the same. This would not be happening if there was this vast eradication of the middle class that some people prognosticate about on this board.

 

[local 12 proud]

Why do you refer to the market as some entity that has an agenda? The market is the combined buying preferences of every individual on the globe.

If I am willing to spend $10 to have someone mow my lawn, and the average that everyone is willing to spend is $10, then that is what the going rate will be in that "market".

Why would the "market" want small children to work in coal bins? Civil Rights would go away?(Not sure how that even applies here) Are people that evil in your estimation? Why do you fear the buying preferences of other people? We happen to be in an industry where the purchasers of our product are not willing to spend as much per unit as they once were, not because they are evil and want slave labor, but because they as individuals have more choices and make their flying decisions based almost solely on price.

Big Business doesn't create the market for anything, but they do play a large part in identifying what the market demands and supplying that demand. The market determines what business do well, which is mainly companies that can provide an inexpensive, quality product.

The good old days are here. The economy is as strong as it's ever been, and there are opportunities galore. They might not be in the field you're currently in, the market just determines what products have value, and if that doesn't jive with your occupation, then you must adapt and create value doing something else.

In general, I just don't understand this doom and gloom utter fear that comes from a lot of poeple on this board. I have to presume it stems from a misunderstanding of macroeconomics, or maybe it's just fear of not having a security blanket protecting you from the movement of the market. So some jobs are going overseas; there are an equivelant number of jobs being insourced in different fields. I don't have any statistics, but I do know that the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been since the late 90's, and consumer confidence is trending the same. This would not be happening if there was this vast eradication of the middle class that some people prognosticate about on this board.

so keep buying your cheap chinese goods at walmart and shut the f..k up, you seem to be happy with the way things are transgressing. hopefully your children will spit on your grave as they should for throwing a decent way of life down the toilet.

 

[robbedagain]

Thank you Princess for making this list for us. It is good to see that the number of replacement workers is growing in here. Another half dozen and you guys will be as obsolete as your unions.

I do miss KeepTheOdds myself, considering he knew nothing of unions he had a real knack for putting you guys in your places. He was a great loss for this Forum and I am sure a great asset for NWA. I wonder if he is now a replacement worker or back on the road. He did come here with good intentions you guys just didn't care, you would rather cheer your fellow unionized AMT's to unemployment and belittle anyone who got in the way of that.

well Keeptheodds may not know much of the unions, but you dont know squat about them either. I dont see how that person is a major asset to NWA when the mgmt could have negogiated in good faith. the real assets of NWA were the AMFA folks and the other three unions folks.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

You have it all backwards robbed, NWA was simply reversing a bad faith deal that AMFA had them trapped in.

Are you certain of your nationality?

 

[Bagbelt]

My point is being romantic about unfettered capitalism. I am not a socialist. However more and more people are going without as our income distribution becomes more skewed in favor of the top end. Healthcare spending came in this year at 1.87 trillion dollars, twice last years. Who's going to keep paying this? Our trade deficit and budget deficits are far too high. What healthy economy? As soon as China stops buying our debt to service their exports, then what? You accuse union people of having a quasi religious belief, then go on to justify the ends by any means in crushing a legal labor dispute instead of dealing in good faith. Please tell me what industries are providing jobs at this point with decent benefits and retirement besides the government.

 

[finman]

so keep buying your cheap chinese goods at walmart and shut the f..k up, you seem to be happy with the way things are transgressing. hopefully your children will spit on your grave as they should for throwing a decent way of life down the toilet.

What am I throwing down the drain, and how am I doing so? Oh, you must think I'm a mechanic. Unfortunately for me, you seem to have misdirected your anger towards an innocent bystander.

My children will be encouraged to get an advanced degree in finance or engineering which will allow the them the flexibility to work in virtually any industry or enviroment. Wow!, spit on my grave? That seems a little harsh.

I certainly wish the airline industry was more profitable, but I'm not going to lash out at the "market" for not complying with my wishes. I personally don't shop at walmart, but I do like Sam's Club.

 

[robbedagain]

You have it all backwards robbed, NWA was simply reversing a bad faith deal that AMFA had them trapped in.

Are you certain of your nationality?

what country are you from? I do not have it backwards. You do. and you will always have it backwards until you admit it that you are wrong about the AMFA. They were people making a living and a way for them to provide for their families. But NWA mgmt didnt give a rats arse about them or their families. AMFA did what they could but NWA refused. now NWA has a bunch of useless scabs working there

 

[TheRealSaabmeister]

I personally don't shop at walmart, but I do like Sam's Club.

Wow, you're really hurting Wal*Mart by shopping at Sams Club

 

[finman]

Wow, you're really hurting Wal*Mart by shopping at Sams Club

I mentioned them in the same breath because I know they are under the same roof. I was being facetious. I have nothing against WalMart politically or economically, I just don't like being around that many poor people.