AWA AA Slotted with US F/A's

[USA320Pilot]

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I believe so. they were seniority list integrated (SLI) as per thr common union's policy....Date-Of-Hire.....

But the question has been posed, since American is a dissimallar union, and the AFA never consumated the deal with a contract.....

Coud the SLI be in question?

And if so, what makes the pilots any different........)

Pilots have no west MEC so there can be no separate ratification, which creates the DFR issue. In addition, the pilots have a final and binding arbitration SLI order. However, the F/A's have a seniority integration agreement between two unions that was never completed and integrated per the Transition Agreement.

AAs' pilot's union indicated there will be no DOH integration between AA and US Airways and the pilots will integrate per the McCaskill-Bond amendment and federal law. Could this happen to US, AWA, and AA's F/A's too with a US-AWA DOH list?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just a hypothetical...

Say the craft and class of steam valve turners at both "old" US and HP were represented by the same union - the Steam Valve Turners of America - with both carriers having a BMSVT - Board of Master Steam Valve Turners - representing each group. A transition agreement is negotiated prior to the merger of "old US/HP that stipulates that 3 events must happen before the two groups can be combined. Those 3 events, in no special order, are issuance of a FAA single ops certifiicate, an integrated seniority list, and a joint contract with the merged company. Because the SVTA has a good working relationship with management of the merged company, an integrated seniority list is completed and joint contract ratified in record time - before the FAA issues the single ops certificate. Per the transition agreement, the merged company can't integrate the steam valve turners until the FAA issues the single ops cert.

Does that mean that a joint contract hasn't been ratified and an integrated seniority list hasn't been established? Or does it mean that both the seniority list and contract actions are complete and just waiting for the single ops cert before they can be utilized?

Seniority is the same - the transition agreement for both the FA's and pilots gives 3 separate things that must happen before the two sides can be integrated. It doesn't say that it's all or nothing - either all 3 items are complete or none of the 3 are complete. It just says that all must be completed prior to the groups being integrated. So does lack of one being completed mean that the other's haven't been completed? Or more likely is each item completed when it's decided and once all 3 are complete the two sides can be integrated?

Jim

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

Could US Airways' F/A's have made the biggest mistake in their careers by voting "no" on the TA?

Will the East F/A's lose their DOH SLI with the West F/A's. Without an implemented list could the SLI become a 3-way non DOH integration? How much better off would US Airways' F/A's be if they ratified their TA when the JNC told the F/A's a signficant benefit was a ratified deal before a merger was announced?

What is behind your obsession with the flight attendants' rejection of that piece-of-s**t tentative agreement? Ostensibly, you are a pilot, but you've left your stinky droppings all over the message threads concerned with flight attendant contract issues, and your commentary always involves some aspect of "you flight attendants are a bunch of ingrates and morons to reject what Sweet Daddy Doug and Senor Flores agreed upon for you." You've made your position abundantly clear, so let me make this likewise. The East and West flight attendants are overwhelming united in our determination to see through the passing of an improved, fair contract, and if you'd ever had to live with our current one, Mr. USA320 Pilot, you would understand that the recent proposal did not satisfy even that modest criteria. I don't think any of us who voted no (and as you know, seventy-five percent is overwhelming) have even a scintilla of regret in its summary rejection, and your constant, needling you'll-be-sorry posts only highlight how completely out of touch you are. Our vote was not predicated upon a fear that the sky might be falling, that tactic may have worked eight years ago (even longer, of course, in the West), but not this time. However this AA business plays itself out, I don't think a single one of us has any regret about the powerful message we sent to Parker & Co. Even if we did end up in a compromised position vis-a-vis seniority (which I do not believe, just more fear mongering from bitter, petty company flunkies), I will never regret casting my "HELL NO!" ballot, nor do I believe would any of my co-workers. At some point, we had to stop operating from a compromised position of fear and subjugation, and we've found that point. Most of us have anyway--may I suggest that you and the guy who claims to be losing a thousand dollars a months since the flight attendant tentative agreement was ousted undertake a private chat where you can try to outdo one another with florid praise for the Parker posse and snippy commentary about idiotic flight attendants not knowing what's best for them.

 

[im back..!!]

Just a hypothetical...

Say the craft and class of steam valve turners at both "old" US and HP were represented by the same union - the Steam Valve Turners of America - with both carriers having a BMSVT - Board of Master Steam Valve Turners - representing each group. A transition agreement is negotiated prior to the merger of "old US/HP that stipulates that 3 events must happen before the two groups can be combined. Those 3 events, in no special order, are issuance of a FAA single ops certifiicate, an integrated seniority list, and a joint contract with the merged company. Because the SVTA has a good working relationship with management of the merged company, an integrated seniority list is completed and joint contract ratified in record time - before the FAA issues the single ops certificate. Per the transition agreement, the merged company can't integrate the steam valve turners until the FAA issues the single ops cert.

Does that mean that a joint contract hasn't been ratified and an integrated seniority list hasn't been established? Or does it mean that both the seniority list and contract actions are complete and just waiting for the single ops cert before they can be utilized?

Seniority is the same - the transition agreement for both the FA's and pilots gives 3 separate things that must happen before the two sides can be integrated. It doesn't say that it's all or nothing - either all 3 items are complete or none of the 3 are complete. It just says that all must be completed prior to the groups being integrated. So does lack of one being completed mean that the other's haven't been completed? Or more likely is each item completed when it's decided and once all 3 are complete the two sides can be integrated?

Jim

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That explains a lot ..... Puts a lot into perspective as to why the west feels as they do, and explains there feelings of a valid DFR if its changed...thx

 

[Phoenix]

Realistically why would AA or AWA go for DOH.

Who gets out voted?

Hell No! Still losing $1000 a month, so far.

AA has people furloughed that were hired before the most junior at LCC and AWA. DOH of hire would work just fine for them.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

AA has people furloughed that were hired before the most junior at LCC and AWA. DOH of hire would work just fine for them.

What my question is does the West even have to deal w/ the East?

Could they have their own M/B arbitration with AA?

 

[Phoenix]

What my question is does the West even have to deal w/ the East?

Could they have their own M/B arbitration with AA?

Currently there are three contract groups. Everything is always negotiable.

 

[fltguymk]

If AA and US flight attendants agree to DOH, then they will get DOH. M-B only applies if the two groups are unable to agree to a method for integrating seniority, if I remember correctly. Now it would be really interesting to see if DOH would revert the former TWA FAs at AA to their original DOH.

No, it would not change.... That was done and over. They are where they are....

 

[usfliboi]

Could US Airways' F/A's have made the biggest mistake in their careers by voting "no" on the TA?

Will the East F/A's lose their DOH SLI with the West F/A's. Without an implemented list could the SLI become a 3-way non DOH integration? How much better off would US Airways' F/A's be if they ratified their TA when the JNC told the F/A's a signficant benefit was a ratified deal before a merger was announced?


I have been asking the same question....Based on the 8 or so emails from AFA it seems they are scrambling to do damage control... Ms Cambell is on record of imposing her views for the Charlotte based team! Hell hath no fury if we screwed this up...... Either way AFA wants back to the table as in yesterday and it is apparent based on the urgency of the emails! Simply amazing how greed will destroy a group of people! OK back to my koolaid! 🙂

 

[ggiby]

What does this mean in regards to an AA merger?

That means that any other airline can not staple at the bottom....

 

[ggiby]

What is behind your obsession with the flight attendants' rejection of that piece-of-s**t tentative agreement? Ostensibly, you are a pilot, but you've left your stinky droppings all over the message threads concerned with flight attendant contract issues, and your commentary always involves some aspect of "you flight attendants are a bunch of ingrates and morons to reject what Sweet Daddy Doug and Senor Flores agreed upon for you." You've made your position abundantly clear, so let me make this likewise. The East and West flight attendants are overwhelming united in our determination to see through the passing of an improved, fair contract, and if you'd ever had to live with our current one, Mr. USA320 Pilot, you would understand that the recent proposal did not satisfy even that modest criteria. I don't think any of us who voted no (and as you know, seventy-five percent is overwhelming) have even a scintilla of regret in its summary rejection, and your constant, needling you'll-be-sorry posts only highlight how completely out of touch you are. Our vote was not predicated upon a fear that the sky might be falling, that tactic may have worked eight years ago (even longer, of course, in the West), but not this time. However this AA business plays itself out, I don't think a single one of us has any regret about the powerful message we sent to Parker & Co. Even if we did end up in a compromised position vis-a-vis seniority (which I do not believe, just more fear mongering from bitter, petty company flunkies), I will never regret casting my "HELL NO!" ballot, nor do I believe would any of my co-workers. At some point, we had to stop operating from a compromised position of fear and subjugation, and we've found that point. Most of us have anyway--may I suggest that you and the guy who claims to be losing a thousand dollars a months since the flight attendant tentative agreement was ousted undertake a private chat where you can try to outdo one another with florid praise for the Parker posse and snippy commentary about idiotic flight attendants not knowing what's best for them.

Whooo HOOO VERRY WELL SAID !!! clap clap!!!

 

[ggiby]

What is behind your obsession with the flight attendants' rejection of that piece-of-s**t tentative agreement? Ostensibly, you are a pilot, but you've left your stinky droppings all over the message threads concerned with flight attendant contract issues, and your commentary always involves some aspect of "you flight attendants are a bunch of ingrates and morons to reject what Sweet Daddy Doug and Senor Flores agreed upon for you." You've made your position abundantly clear, so let me make this likewise. The East and West flight attendants are overwhelming united in our determination to see through the passing of an improved, fair contract, and if you'd ever had to live with our current one, Mr. USA320 Pilot, you would understand that the recent proposal did not satisfy even that modest criteria. I don't think any of us who voted no (and as you know, seventy-five percent is overwhelming) have even a scintilla of regret in its summary rejection, and your constant, needling you'll-be-sorry posts only highlight how completely out of touch you are. Our vote was not predicated upon a fear that the sky might be falling, that tactic may have worked eight years ago (even longer, of course, in the West), but not this time. However this AA business plays itself out, I don't think a single one of us has any regret about the powerful message we sent to Parker & Co. Even if we did end up in a compromised position vis-a-vis seniority (which I do not believe, just more fear mongering from bitter, petty company flunkies), I will never regret casting my "HELL NO!" ballot, nor do I believe would any of my co-workers. At some point, we had to stop operating from a compromised position of fear and subjugation, and we've found that point. Most of us have anyway--may I suggest that you and the guy who claims to be losing a thousand dollars a months since the flight attendant tentative agreement was ousted undertake a private chat where you can try to outdo one another with florid praise for the Parker posse and snippy commentary about idiotic flight attendants not knowing what's best for them.

Whooo HOOO VERRY WELL SAID !!! clap clap!!!

 

[ggiby]

What is behind your obsession with the flight attendants' rejection of that piece-of-s**t tentative agreement? Ostensibly, you are a pilot, but you've left your stinky droppings all over the message threads concerned with flight attendant contract issues, and your commentary always involves some aspect of "you flight attendants are a bunch of ingrates and morons to reject what Sweet Daddy Doug and Senor Flores agreed upon for you." You've made your position abundantly clear, so let me make this likewise. The East and West flight attendants are overwhelming united in our determination to see through the passing of an improved, fair contract, and if you'd ever had to live with our current one, Mr. USA320 Pilot, you would understand that the recent proposal did not satisfy even that modest criteria. I don't think any of us who voted no (and as you know, seventy-five percent is overwhelming) have even a scintilla of regret in its summary rejection, and your constant, needling you'll-be-sorry posts only highlight how completely out of touch you are. Our vote was not predicated upon a fear that the sky might be falling, that tactic may have worked eight years ago (even longer, of course, in the West), but not this time. However this AA business plays itself out, I don't think a single one of us has any regret about the powerful message we sent to Parker & Co. Even if we did end up in a compromised position vis-a-vis seniority (which I do not believe, just more fear mongering from bitter, petty company flunkies), I will never regret casting my "HELL NO!" ballot, nor do I believe would any of my co-workers. At some point, we had to stop operating from a compromised position of fear and subjugation, and we've found that point. Most of us have anyway--may I suggest that you and the guy who claims to be losing a thousand dollars a months since the flight attendant tentative agreement was ousted undertake a private chat where you can try to outdo one another with florid praise for the Parker posse and snippy commentary about idiotic flight attendants not knowing what's best for them.

Whooo HOOO VERRY WELL SAID !!! clap clap!!!

 

[Crzipilot]

What is behind your obsession with the flight attendants' rejection of that piece-of-s**t tentative agreement? Ostensibly, you are a pilot, but you've left your stinky droppings all over the message threads concerned with flight attendant contract issues, and your commentary always involves some aspect of "you flight attendants are a bunch of ingrates and morons to reject what Sweet Daddy Doug and Senor Flores agreed upon for you." You've made your position abundantly clear, so let me make this likewise. The East and West flight attendants are overwhelming united in our determination to see through the passing of an improved, fair contract, and if you'd ever had to live with our current one, Mr. USA320 Pilot, you would understand that the recent proposal did not satisfy even that modest criteria. I don't think any of us who voted no (and as you know, seventy-five percent is overwhelming) have even a scintilla of regret in its summary rejection, and your constant, needling you'll-be-sorry posts only highlight how completely out of touch you are. Our vote was not predicated upon a fear that the sky might be falling, that tactic may have worked eight years ago (even longer, of course, in the West), but not this time. However this AA business plays itself out, I don't think a single one of us has any regret about the powerful message we sent to Parker & Co. Even if we did end up in a compromised position vis-a-vis seniority (which I do not believe, just more fear mongering from bitter, petty company flunkies), I will never regret casting my "HELL NO!" ballot, nor do I believe would any of my co-workers. At some point, we had to stop operating from a compromised position of fear and subjugation, and we've found that point. Most of us have anyway--may I suggest that you and the guy who claims to be losing a thousand dollars a months since the flight attendant tentative agreement was ousted undertake a private chat where you can try to outdo one another with florid praise for the Parker posse and snippy commentary about idiotic flight attendants not knowing what's best for them.

I believe his obsession comes from the fact that the F/A's did a much better job in the BK round of negotiations than the pilots. This poster has never seen a concession that he hasn't DROOLED over accepting.

Please ignore him....

 

[Harry Callahan]

Slightly off topic(pls.forgive ) but how does USA320pilot treat f/a's on his crew? Inquiring minds wants to know 🙄