B787 to fly ORD-NRT

[jcw]

So let's see - using one's logic - to buy something costs money - therefore there is no need to buy a new car - no need to buy a new tractor - for that matter no need to buy a new airplane - one might want to contact Ford, Boeing, Airbus , Cat etc to let them know it's crazy to produce new products
 
Let's keep going with this logic - since it costs money to buy something - there is no one at any company that knows how to do a cost benefit analysis of purchasing a new piece of equipment and how that will save money over time
 
Let's keep going with this - at one point DL thought it was a great idea to buy kiosks to check people in - wait that means someone did a cost benefit analysis to see if buying that hardware would pay for itself
 
Let's keep going even more - so DL is about to take delivery of wait - a new A330 - that must of been a mistake to purchase a new airplane - not going to save DL anything - but wait it's going to have better fuel burn not as good as the A350 however better than an old 767 - and passengers will know it's a new plane and like it
 
So back to Reality - the 787 will be the newest plane on the route - it will offer several new features superior to the competition - sure can UA upgrade a 747 with mood lighting - however they can't install the new windows the 787 has - not that the windows are a huge feature that would drive someone to that plane
 
We also had the snipping about AA losing money in the Pacific - let's pretend for a second that DL got a new 787 (for reason they ordered them - so someone at DL thought it was a good idea to order them and OMG did a cost benefit analysis saying the 787 would be good for DL - signed a contract and made a deposit - just crazy talk that they thought to do that) - and DL deployed the 787 to the Lat Am market - we would be hearing what a strategic move that was
 
Quick reminder - DL loses more than twice the amount of money in Lat AM market than AA loses in Asia so if I were a DL employee I would be worried about the losses in Lat AM and SEA since you are so concerned about AA employees being concerned about Asia - see you should be equally concerned
 
One last point all of AA's new Asia markets have started very strong

 

[WorldTraveler]

I haven't "snipped" anything.

and if addition of a new aircraft on the route is supposed to improve AA's competitiveness in the market, then DOT data should show it.

like everything else, there is an abundance of data to verify if your statement is correct or not.

AA's management knows the numbers better than self-appointed internet "experts," and AA's management believes that investments in new aircraft are still NPV positive and thus value-creating for shareholders.  Reality.

and the cost of operating specific aircraft types is indeed known and not a mystery.

AA will report its CASM for its 787s alongside other aircraft fleets.


and it is simply a lie to say that DL has lost more money flying to Latin America than AA has to Asia. DL was profitable flying to Latin America in 2013; AA hasn't had a profitable quarter flying to Asia in almost 5 years.

and you might be careful about wanting to compare losses in Latin America. We are still waiting for results for the 4th quarter of 2014 but AA lost money flying to Latin America in both the 4th quarter of 2013 (when DL made money) and in the 2nd quarter of 2014.

 

[Kev3188]

AA's management knows the numbers better than self-appointed internet "experts," and AA's management believes that investments in new aircraft are still NPV positive and thus value-creating for shareholders.  Reality.

Commavia--

What's "NPV" an acronym for?

 

[USFlyer]

Usually it's Net Present Value.

 

[Kev3188]

Cool. Thank you.

 

[Bob Owens]

but newer aircraft cost money... a lot of them.and the airline that some here have bashed as having an "Old" fleet has a higher maintenance dispatch reliability than carriers that have far newer fleets.maybe some carriers know how to operate older fleets and do it more efficiently and more reliably?and yes customers have no idea what they are flying on.NW did a very good job of keeping the interiors looking modern... DL has moved the process one step further by having customer service amenities as good as if not better than what AA and UA have on their fleets... EVERY seat on every DL longhaul int'l aircraft has AVOD at every seat; AA and UA can't say that.new aircraft could be an asset but they could also be a noose around an airline bean counter's neck, esp. if it comes at the cost of having to retire aircraft that do have ample life in them - and like AA's 777s are not at all obsolete.

AA's investment in newer more fuel efficient aircraft may look a little like Bormans blunder with EAL when he wracked up debt and fuel prices went down but time will tell. AA made $4.25 billion last year while Delta only made $2.21 and since AA didnt have their Hedges anymoer they were able to capitailze on the drop and probably saw more of a boost in profits from plummeting fuel prices than Delta with their fuel hogs.

Reliability, well even new planes break, then there is the learning curve, then on top of that is the worst deal in the industry and the poor morale that goes with it. Right now it may not be a problem with the $2billion lead in profits over Delta, but when fuel goes up and profits go down, and the planes get older and break even more it may be a factor. A fuel efficent plane sitting on the ground really doesnt save any money, in fact it costs more because of the money that was borrowed to buy it.

 

[IORFA]

So, is ORD-NRT going to be daily again?

 

[jcw]

Interesting how other airlines out of Tokyo are celebrating when a 787 is put on a route - when AA puts a 787 on a route it's trashed

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't recall making any comments about other airlines' use of the 787.

It is a great, new technology aircraft and I have nothing against new technology. We can't keep using typewriters and participate in an aviation chat forum, now can we?

My only concern has been the AMOUNT of new aircraft that AA is taking on.

based just on AA's annual report, they are taking delivery of 60-75 new mainline aircraft per year over the next couple of years.

that is a lot of aircraft replacement and a lot of debt.

I have no idea how many of those are widebody aircraft but the combined 773ER, 787, and 350 orders amount to a lot of heavy metal, which appears to be far more than is needed for the announced 767 retirements.

 

[robbedagain]

AA deferred 787s til 2017 or 18     the 350 not sure if its 2017 or 18 when it comes online     773ER are coming  not sure if its been deferred or if theyre still taking on them now 

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, AA has 60-75 mainline aircraft on order for delivery for each of 2015 and beyond.

AA deferred about 4 787s - which probably is as much as Boeing would allow without penalty.

no word on delayed deliveries for 350s or 773s.

AA says aircraft have an expected life of 25-30 years and yet they are replacing well over 7% of their fleet each year - far in excess of the 3-4% that the life limits of their fleet reflect relative to their fleet size.

and as far as widebodies, AA is saying that they will get rid of a dozen or more 767s in the next couple years - maybe less - and yet there are dozens of new widebodies entering the fleet - all larger.

AA has more aircraft on order than they can possibly accommodate given their current fleet retirements.

ORD-NRT is a great addition for the 787.

the larger question is AA's overall fleet replacement and specifically where the 777s that are being displaced will go.